If someone tries taking your child - Page 3

If someone tries taking your child

This is a discussion on If someone tries taking your child within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Bear2 What if you had two young children with you, or in my case two young grandchildren and a BG takes one? ...

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear2 View Post
    What if you had two young children with you, or in my case two young grandchildren and a BG takes one? I am 70 and can not run fast anymore, but if you leave one to go to help the other, they could both be in jeopardy. I will be carrying a bug.
    Please advise your thoughts.
    This is important to me as I have two little ones (3 years and 1 month) and I've thought about this a LOT.

    I have heard some recommend yelling at the closest person to look after your child "left behind" but it's not very likely that you are going to have time to communicate to someone what you need and then you are going to have to trust that individual. Tough decision.

    One good instructor friend of mine recommends having "emergency" plans in place that your children (that can understand, that is) so that when you say a certain code word (such as "emergency") the child immediately acts. For instance in WalMart you might have your emergency location be the layaway in the back or the tire department or front desk or some other place your child could find easily. When you scream "EMERGENCY" while running, your other child goes into gear and acts out the emergency plan.

    For older kids it was recommended giving them a car key and having the emergency location be the car. That way the child can get in the car and lock the doors.

    With children as young as mine I'm pretty sure I'd just have to hope for the best though I'd probably at least try screaming, "Watch my baby!!" at the nearest individual while I run after the other one.

    If anyone has any better ideas I'm all for ears.


  2. #32
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW1911fan View Post
    I was talking about this with my wife today at Costco. I know what I would do in this situation but what would be legal.

    Say your at the store and you turn around for a second with child in cart and when you turn back to cart someone is starting to walk away with your baby. Now I would imagine it would be kidnapping if they were leaving the isle but what if they were only 10 steps away. When does it become kidnapping or what should you do in this situation?
    It becomes kidnapping when they remove your child from the place that you left him/her. I would do everything in my power in the force continuum to interdict the abduction. The State of Georgia recognizes kidnapping as a forcible felony. The parent or stranger or whom ever may use what ever force deemed necessary against the aggressor to terminate the attack, including deadly force.

    What would I do? If verbal commands don't immediately register a response, the physical strikes if I am close enough, or moving to get close enough for a knife strike if I am not. My gun leaves its holster only when I'm sure I have a shot and intend to take it.

    Thank heavens I live in a state where I have not to worry if an attacker is armed before I can act to preserve life and limb.
    2nd Amendment: because personal violence never makes an appointment.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Sidenote: this week's episode of The Best Defense touches on the subject of family defense and how to handle a very narrowly defined situation. Some here may find it interesting. Mrs. Moga and I had a brainstorming session after watching it together last night. If nothing else, the program reached her much more effectively than I could doling out TTP in a conversational setting.
    2nd Amendment: because personal violence never makes an appointment.
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  4. #34
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    I'm going to just propose a slightly different scenario than 10 steps away....like a couple of others above:

    I have found quite a few lost kids in malls, parks, etc...(not when in a professional ranger capacity but as a citizen) and helped them...but today it is very very scary. I ALWAYS speak to any other adults around me, I make sure that they know what I am doing when I address the child. The fact is that any single adult can be accused or...apparently accosted, even shot....by panicking people. Esp. if it is some do-gooder who has heard a panicked parent looking for their kid.

    Aside from physical issues, if you dont get that kid to an authority fast or call 911 immediately, then you are opening yourself up to being accused of kidnapping. It doesnt give you much time to take the kid to security or try to find mom or dad.


    So if you do step in to 'help', you do need to properly assess the situation.

    Sorry...still in disgust mode with society in general. Ever since not one person even stopped to help at our accident the other nite. But it does point out that you need to be as clear as possible on the facts before opening up your can of whoopass.
    Fortune favors the bold.

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I'm going to just propose a slightly different scenario than 10 steps away....like a couple of others above:

    I have found quite a few lost kids in malls, parks, etc...(not when in a professional ranger capacity but as a citizen) and helped them...but today it is very very scary. I ALWAYS speak to any other adults around me, I make sure that they know what I am doing when I address the child. The fact is that any single adult can be accused or...apparently accosted, even shot....by panicking people. Esp. if it is some do-gooder who has heard a panicked parent looking for their kid.

    Aside from physical issues, if you dont get that kid to an authority fast or call 911 immediately, then you are opening yourself up to being accused of kidnapping. It doesnt give you much time to take the kid to security or try to find mom or dad.


    So if you do step in to 'help', you do need to properly assess the situation.

    Sorry...still in disgust mode with society in general. Ever since not one person even stopped to help at our accident the other nite. But it does point out that you need to be as clear as possible on the facts before opening up your can of whoopass.
    Yep, well said, Mare... our society is becoming "me me me" and there's no society to it.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    ....
    So to address your last sentence, I would say you need to get better at shooting or better at fighting.
    After reading a few more posts, it seems as though it would also be prudent to add a non-lethal option to your SD toolkit, such as pepper spray. Right now many of us have a binary option - shooting or hand-to-hand. Something "in the middle" should be part of the toolkit.

    To be completely honest, I did not consider this until this thread.

  7. #37
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    being realistic if someone took your kid you would never see it but if I did I would make every effort to get the kid back before violence was necessary and if so, god forgive me because I would lose it. I can't stop them from trying but I will break them from the habit

  8. #38
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    if its kidnapping for money, like the ransom of red chief, i would refuse the first three calls till the precious little monster has worn them down to them offering me $5K to take the kid back.
    9MMare and babarock like this.
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  9. #39
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    I will do everything in my power to protect my children. I would start at one level and as any parents feels, not hesitate to escalate it to any level to protect my boys. My wife would probably start at kill the *******. Dont mess with mommas cubs!
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

  10. #40
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    Verify it is a kidnapping and not just someone helping your lost child before taking them down. If you're absolutely sure it's a kidnapping, run up to them quietly and forcefully step on the back of the leg, behind the knee, to bring them down. Then start yelling 'kidnapper!' so everyone around you knows what's going on. Then call 911. Don't want them to start running before you get there.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    We all have to make decisions as to how far we will go when our kids are involved and though it is a very hard decision I have decided I would rather risk my child dying at the scene by my hand than never seeing him or her again.
    I wanted to quote the above in case it was missed. I read people saying "if I have a clear shot". That's doubtfull. While I would likely never live down shooting my own child, neither would I live down allowing them to be kidnapped, taken advantage of, and likely killed. So I'll take the chance with a shot if I have to. My wife and I both agree on this one. It's something to settle in your head before you are faced with it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I have found quite a few lost kids in malls, parks, etc...(not when in a professional ranger capacity but as a citizen) and helped them...but today it is very very scary. I ALWAYS speak to any other adults around me, I make sure that they know what I am doing when I address the child. The fact is that any single adult can be accused or...apparently accosted, even shot....by panicking people. Esp. if it is some do-gooder who has heard a panicked parent looking for their kid.
    A little hispanic boy, about 4-5, came out of a store in the mall while we were Christmas shopping. A few things I immediately noticed...No one holding his hand, no other hispanics in the area, everyone was watching him but did not seem to be "with him". So I got his attention and started asking him questions about where his parents were, if they were in the store, etc. I slowed him down enough for mom to notice he was gone and come running out of the store. I never grabbed him or touched him though. The thought crossed my mind to make my intentions clear to everyone around me. But I could not just watch that kid walk off into the mall alone.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  12. #42
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Just felt like venting on a subject such as this. For the sake of not being put on notice, I will use the word "tickle". You "tickle" with my family where I can presume imminent danger to them, and I will "tickle" you up.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I'm going to just propose a slightly different scenario than 10 steps away....like a couple of others above:

    I have found quite a few lost kids in malls, parks, etc...(not when in a professional ranger capacity but as a citizen) and helped them...but today it is very very scary. I ALWAYS speak to any other adults around me, I make sure that they know what I am doing when I address the child. The fact is that any single adult can be accused or...apparently accosted, even shot....by panicking people. Esp. if it is some do-gooder who has heard a panicked parent looking for their kid.

    Aside from physical issues, if you dont get that kid to an authority fast or call 911 immediately, then you are opening yourself up to being accused of kidnapping. It doesnt give you much time to take the kid to security or try to find mom or dad.


    So if you do step in to 'help', you do need to properly assess the situation.

    Sorry...still in disgust mode with society in general. Ever since not one person even stopped to help at our accident the other nite. But it does point out that you need to be as clear as possible on the facts before opening up your can of whoopass.
    Last time I was in this situation I did not approach the child. I found a store employee and kept an eye on the child from a distance and told the employee that it seemed as though the child was alone/lost. The employee (with store vest on) then approached the child with me to ask if she was lost and we found her parents together.

    I find having someone from the store with appropriate clothing can help with misidentifying the situation and then there is a witness to say that you are a good Samaritan. It almost completely eliminates the "kidnapper" stigma.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    MY kid, I do whatever it takes.

    Better question, in EagleKS's situation, you are carrying near the front of the store when you hear him yelling. The guy is running towards you.

    1) He is pulling/carrying the kid with him.
    2) The kid is left behind and he's bagging it.

    What do you do in either case?

    Personally, I wouldn't get involved in other people's business if I'm not sure what is going on, but when kids are involved I would. No way that kid is leaving with him. I don't think in case #2 I'd use deadly force, but the guy might get his ass kicked trying to get by me.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  15. #45
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    A variety of situations would dictate what your options are and what you can do. If I can get my hands on him I'll go to some basic Krav combatives primarily trying to grab onto him to slow him down and simultaneously gouge eyes, get kicks/knees in the groin, punches and elbows to the throat, etc. If I am at a distance and can't catch up to him things change drastically. Shooting a firearm would be extremely risky with you and the kidnapper standing still let alone if you and the kidnapper are running an all out sprint. At that point it is chase and see how things develop. Can you get a good description of the car and license plate number? Can you get a good description of the assailant? Can you catch up and get to the assailant while they are getting into their gettaway car? Sooooo many what if's to truly say what you would do.

    I am extremely aware (as many parents) of my 3 year old's whereabouts. He knows to stay by me at ALL times when in public. Not just to avoid kidnappers but also for things like walking or standing in the parking lot, or just staying out of others way. With that said, I know I am not perfect but nothing says I can't try to be when it comes to protecting my son.

    The last thing I will say..... There is no rule or law that will EVER restict me to doing what I need to do to protect my sons life, period.

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