Off the Runway

Off the Runway

This is a discussion on Off the Runway within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Living outside of D.C., just down the street from Dulles International Airport, gave a me a lot of pause to think about terrorism and the ...

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Thread: Off the Runway

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Off the Runway

    Living outside of D.C., just down the street from Dulles International Airport, gave a me a lot of pause to think about terrorism and the usefulness of CCW. All that and about the responsibility of carrying - and the grave consequences its abuse can entail when employed improperly. A post just made by ExSoldier reminded me of a scenario I have armchair general'ed many times; one concerning MANPAD's.

    MANPAD stands for "Man-Portable Air Defense" - a fun term the military uses for shoulder-fired surface to air missiles. This scenario is based off the idea that MANPADs take about 10 seconds for the weapon to power up (source weapon: Russian 9K32M Strela - most widely produced SAM ever). This means you would in the theory that this is an actual weapon in this scenario, have roughly 12-14 seconds for the weapon to power up, the shooter to aim (get tone), and fire.

    --------------------------------

    You are driving into the sunset on a fairly crowded 6-lane road heading home during rush hour. The road runs perpendicular to a runway, the end of which is roughly a mile away. You watch aircraft take-off on a daily basis as you sit in traffic for a stoplight just ahead.

    You enjoy your favorite music and take note of the convertible Mustang 2 feet from your front bumper with two male occupants. You begin to notice the passenger fumbling with a large tube of some kind. Both men start to yell excitedly and you can begin to hear it over your music (we'll say your windows are down), but you can't make it out because a jet is taking off over your head and flying away.

    The convertible top suddenly drops. The passenger stands up grabbing the tube and begins to lift it up out of the passenger compartment up towards his head and the overflying passenger jet...

    What do you do?

    Variable One:
    Parked at the light next to you is a marked state police cruiser with the cop paying attention to his computer.

    Variable Two:
    Traffic is moving at roughly 25mph and you are even further away.

    --------------------------------

    Just wanted to get an idea of what you ladies and gents might do in this situation. Gotta keep us on our toes for problems we may not have always considered, right? Or am I just a jerk for not seeing a similar thread 4 months ago?
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    Member Array Spectre's Avatar
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    If I see civilians aiming a MANPAD at an airliner, I would probably engage. Who the hell would charge you with anything?

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    VIP Member Array Old Chief's Avatar
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    +1 on Spectre's comment.

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    engage fer sure if yer sure its a weapon.
    now how to engage? hit'em with yer car would be the "safest" for any other bystander .if yer car is big enough. knock them outta traffic, whatever knock the he!! outta the car. that'll throw them off balance enough then see how it plays out from there. but i'd use my vehicle as my weapon first if possible. and if i happen to be wrong then i just hit'em with a car not shot and killed'em!

    of course please disregard my P.A.D. (personal anti-terrorist device) mounted on the back of my truck..LOL.
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    Hitting them with your car is an interesting solution. But I think I see a possible flaw.

    You ram the back of the BG's car, the BG (passenger) is knocked off balance..... Gets back up and continues his aiming.

    You sit there semi-dazed, your airbags fired!

    WHOOSH goes the rocket!

    Just one possible scenario.
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    3sh
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    ram em to hell

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    Member Array PolarBear's Avatar
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    Blow the horn while ramming them (one very hard time), then a quick exit from my vehicle with loud verbal commands to "drop the weapon", followed by shots if needed. This would be done in all 3 "Variables", including if the LEO was there.

    They have “demonstrated the intent to inflict serious bodily harm or death” against someone who was NOT an aggressor in the situation. Even if the SAM was unloaded or a fake, I feel I would still be justified in my actions, because a verbal warning was given before shots were fired.

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    hit the 4x4 button and give em a 1/2 ton hard top.
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    Member Array amlevin's Avatar
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    All of the above and then pray that it isn't a Homeland Security Drill and it is merely a simulation. I think I would start with a lot of noise (horn), escalate to a good hard bump (Air Bags shouldn't deploy below 30 mph when hitting a stopped car in front of you. By then, you should know if you need to employ your weapon. Merely hitting the car should disrupt the aim/acquisition process enough to encourage a miss by the missle. Also, the LEO should be paying attention by this time and also get involved.
    ""If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, I either won't need more or, more won't help me.""

  10. #10
    3sh
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    if someone has that kind of firepower... surely his other buddies are packing some AK-47's or something close to it...

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    As far as I'm concerned, if someone is in front of you and pulls out a SAM, they are not a civillian and they are definitely not baking cookies. I'm dead-on with Spectre's comment. If DHS is stupid enough to do a "simulation" in the public with a real enough looking SAM, they deserve a COM shot or emptied mag.

    No one would fault you with shooting a person with a SAM pointed at a plane, simulation or not. And the LEO would probably be glad, too. I'm not sure if a LEO would be expected to give a warning, but I can tell you that there would be no such expectation or requirement on a civillian, non-LEO.

    Cheers.

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    Member Array PolarBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundwave View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, if someone is in front of you and pulls out a SAM, they are not a civillian and they are definitely not baking cookies. I'm dead-on with Spectre's comment. If DHS is stupid enough to do a "simulation" in the public with a real enough looking SAM, they deserve a COM shot or emptied mag.

    No one would fault you with shooting a person with a SAM pointed at a plane, simulation or not. And the LEO would probably be glad, too. I'm not sure if a LEO would be expected to give a warning, but I can tell you that there would be no such expectation or requirement on a civillian, non-LEO.

    Cheers.
    The warning I was talking about is something I would do. It would be done after my draw if I had the opportunity. The purpose is both to give an opportunity to defuse the situation, and also for my piece of mind in the rare case it is some kind of drill.

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    Member Array soundwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolarBear View Post
    The warning I was talking about is something I would do.
    And the warning I was talking about was with the theoretical LEO who may be required to give one. ;O)

    Cheers.

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    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    Yet if you fail to try, 350+ people lose their lives on the airliner.

    Perhaps it's just a Soldier solution, but one life for 350 seems fair to me.

    And if it turns out to be fake or a prank of some kind, they're stupid for doing it and deserve what they get.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3sh View Post
    if someone has that kind of firepower... surely his other buddies are packing some AK-47's or something close to it...
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    I would aim at the battery pack. If it riccocheted off the tube and hit the BG in the head, I could claim it was an accident.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

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