January 19th, 2012 06:31 PM
I think you had a good response. I have been surprised at the effectiveness of raising a hand in a "stop" fashion. I have used it several times and it stops people in their tracks. I would have assumed it was a panhandler or someone with a sob story saying they ran out of gas and the wife needs to go to the hospital. (I have heard both those stories and then seen them driving away after getting handouts from others). Those same parking lots have had people attacked as they approached their car.
Any criminal with half a brain will know that you cannot be carrying if you are going on campus and easy pickings.
January 19th, 2012 06:50 PM
I recently moved from the location listed in my profile to somewhere in the deep south. I have been very surprised at the amount of people who come up and talk to me and ask me for stuff. Once I got south of VA, I had conversations at gas stations with random strangers in NC, SC, and GA. I think it's mostly a bit of southern hospitality, but it gets me slightly on edge when grown men who are wearing torn and dirty clothes try to talk to me at night, which has been happening at my current location. This has happened at gas stations, grocery store parking lots, and just walking on sidewalks.
January 19th, 2012 07:08 PM
It honestly *sounds* like they were handing out flyers or something the way you describe it.. and with her response. It's cold here in PA over the last couple of days.. so a hoodie, or hat that makes anyone look like a hoodlum is kinda prevalent in a university area. But, you were there.. so your reaction wasn't necessarily a bad one. You gotta trust your gut.
January 19th, 2012 07:28 PM
OC-17 should be with you when your weapon is not. Whenever you're out you make the playground and prepare yourself accordingly. If you're smart and plan ahead, any no-gun zone won't stand in your way of taking care of yourself the best you can. Limits are for the less thoughtful of society. Many of us look at limits as a challenge to find a better way with dealing with our surroundings. Only the average are limited in this way. Criminals are criminals because they choose to ignore the limits. How should the laws have power over you when the law can't stop a murder from happening? You need to be better than this and find answers. Pests can be dispelled in many ways. If there's an intrusion on your life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness..............stand firm.
January 19th, 2012 07:57 PM
I read your reply just before driving home and have been pondering on it since. My own armchair QB of the situation tells me that my reaction was more forceful than was required, but that I was reacting to something on an intuitive level. Whether that something would have a simple annoyance, as I suspect to be the case, or something more serious I don't know, nor does it really matter. I keep coming back to being unable to reconcile the oddities of her response, i.e. meeting up with someone halfway across the lot, not approaching anyone else, and being parked in the most hidden part of the lot. If she needed help, there are gas stations and a food lion that are open on the other side of the plaza. If she needed a hospital, the bus on that route takes you almost right to one of the best in the state (the bus rides are free). In terms of appearances, she was out of place. The majority of the users of that stop are more professionally dressed, predominantly univ employees and lower level medical people (that don't get premier parking). There is student housing on the stops before and right after, so they don't usually use that spot, which is mostly regulars. I think that the technicals of my reaction were from mental rehearsing: using a stop gesture, the "I can't help you, don't approach", etc.
Originally Posted by Hopyard
This thread has definitely given me some good suggestions. I need to improve the security of my car gun storage and the lock box recommended in this thread looks like it would do well in this regard at a very reasonable price (~$25). I also need to expand my defensive tool repertoire. I have a tactical flashlight that would temporarily blind and disorient someone (a Surefire 200 lumen output) but I need to get a belt case for it. Amazon has those too, which with a lock box would get me into free shipping :P. Other options, like OC-17 mention would be good too, not just there but in general. Thankfully, crime is very low there, but it still happens and can be brutally violent. For a well known example: Murder of Eve Carson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Last edited by noway2; January 19th, 2012 at 08:20 PM.
Reason: free bus rides
January 19th, 2012 08:43 PM
Not necessarily true, but I can think of times where that is the case. If the hoodie is out of place, then it might be cause for closer scrutiny.
Originally Posted by adric22
January 19th, 2012 08:53 PM
Then rest easy and "fergetaboutit." Probably did fine.
Originally Posted by noway2
Hey, what's the worst that might be? Someone you don't know thinks she
encountered a jerk? SO? Who care? You can waste a lot of energy and give yourself a lot of needless aggravation worrying about what someone else might think; it ended well. And you can
bet she has given it less thought today than you have.
And if you are second guessing yourself and thinking you were indeed a jerk, well probably not. You already told us. " I was reacting to something on an intuitive level." You probably were spot on.
If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
January 19th, 2012 08:57 PM
January 19th, 2012 10:06 PM
wait wait wait so hoodies are bad, sleeveless hoodies are bad i bought a vest with a hoodie that comes out the collar is is bad too since its tucked in a lot? :P
i see it simply its a good learning experience :D
When life gives you lemons, Open a lemonaid buisness.
January 19th, 2012 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by steelhawk
On its own I do not see the hoodie as something to run away from or call in a swat team. However if the hoodie is combined with other things that make you nervous you should be on your toes. Normally it is not any one thing that gets my adrenalin going. Its the accumulative effect of many different indicators that get my awareness levels up.
Had you let this person approach and something went terribly wrong these same naysayers would all be here telling you how foolish you were not to maintain your situational awareness.
January 19th, 2012 10:56 PM
I see a lot of different takes on the author being approached by a young woman in a hoodie in a parking lot. Some seem mocking. Some seem to agree on caution.
Here is my take on it from knowledge, experience, training and taking reports for 30 years being a cop.
Predators come in many forms and attack in many different ways. The wolves travel in packs, attacking from all angles at once. Tigers ambush from behind. Spiders catch you in a web. The box jellyfish just floats right up looking angelic until the tentacles are inescapable.
Yeah, I know, prose. Oy.
The point is that we have a million years plus of evolution telling us when something is wrong. When the hairs stand up on your neck. When you get that uneasy feeling in your gut. When something just "doesn't look right," your primal brain is warning your more advanced brain that you are in danger of some sort. Just because nothing happens right then, or at all, doesn't mean that there was no threat. It might just be that the threat chose another time, victim or location. (perhaps the author did not see that a patrol car passed behind him after he turned around and THAT was why she suddenly backed off)
Too many times people become victims because they either ignore all of the alarms and whistles going off in their mind because they have trained it out of themselves because, well, gosh darn it, we are civilized nowadays, or maybe someone else has mocked them to shame until they started purposefully ignore the warning signs, or maybe they are just on cloud nine or in condition white and fail to see what is going on around them.
Here is my point. If it looks off, it probably is off.
So her feelings might have been hurt. So what. Better to chance that than find out she is the drop of dew on the Venus Fly Trap.
Another thing to remember is that criminals are many times excellent judges of who will make a good target and when to strike. They may be dumb as a box of rocks school book wise, but can spot a mark a mile away. And they will also use your own personality traits against you, so just because you are 6' 4" and go 250lbs, do not think you cannot be victimized easily if you let your previous encounter where size and strength matter fool you into blindly walking into a bad situation.
Point of order - years ago in Texas, there was a pack of criminals. Their MO was to be in the parking garages after a sporting event and wait for targets that looked like they had been pounding a few brewskis to come along with their wife or girlfriend, and they were usually aiming for the larger, tougher ones that looked like they had a little too much swagger. They would then stage one of the following to get the man to come to them, walking right into their trap: (1) Boyfriend apparently slapping girlfriend around. She screams for help. Tough guy runs to the rescue and is set upon by about five to ten guys that were hiding low in the surrounding cars with baseball bats, attacking and robbing him with ease. (2) Two punky looking youths shout at the wife/girlfriend of tough guy target from a corner of the garage, calling her all kinds of cruel and disgusting names and insinuating he was a wuss (ok, didn't want to get edited for the real word there) for not being "man" enough to do something about it. Tough guy then goes to get some satisfaction by taking out the little dudes, and again, is set upon by the gang hiding off to the side, robbing him. (3) Scantily clad woman picks the guy looking to be by himself, or maybe two men together, and tells them she is afraid to walk to her car in the garage alone because she is alone, asking them to walk her to the car. Perhaps she pours on the sexy part very well. Knights in shining armor volunteer to walk right into the trap on a lower level of the garage.
So, after all that, what was my point??? Oh, yes, my point is that just because it is a woman in a hoodie looking innocent, that does not mean that she is not a trapdoor spider waiting to spring the trap, or perhaps the distraction to get you looking in one spot instead of the guys coming up behind you shortly, or even to lure you to her car where she locked her keys in her car so you will be easy prey for the guys hiding over there.
I am not saying walk around like the world is after you. I am saying trust your instincts, scan the entire area and if it starts setting off alarms, walk away quickly. I think everyone carries a cell phone these days, and if you are armed, you can take a better position and wait for the police or whatever services are needed if necessary.
But as I have heard it said, "Live in this world like everyone is your friend...... but to be on the safe side, have a plan in your mind at all times to kill all of them if it becomes necessary."
January 20th, 2012 01:10 AM
What exactly does a criminal look like? If I don't know you....
Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI
"You cannot invade the mainland United States.
There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"
- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
Sig P238/Sig 1911 Ultra/Beretta PX4 Storm/Kimber Ultra Carry II
January 20th, 2012 01:36 AM
Exactly, you're getting it!
Originally Posted by ponchsox
To the OP, AFAIK pepper spray is not considered a weapon and can be carried on educational property. It is certainly not listed on the sign at the entrance to my daughters school. Here is the link to the statute. I carry a Fox labs personal pocket spray. It's not much larger than a standard CO2 cartridge. Something to think about. No gun does not have to mean unprotected.
14‑269.2. Weapons on campus or other educational property.
I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!
"Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"
January 20th, 2012 01:47 AM
Much better to be thought rude than to be a victim of an 'interview' an prelude to a mugging, imo. Good job.
January 20th, 2012 07:20 AM
This is what I'm thinking. I read all the time here about "listen to your spidey senses", "go with your first instinct". Isn't this what the OP was doing? Since I wasn't there I can't really say whether he overreacted?
Originally Posted by Speculator
I've used the hand-up stop signal to a guy in the parking lot coming up on me too fast, it worked. You can bet he wanted something.
Ultimately I'd guess she wanted something. Cigarette, dollar, magazine subscription, dead battery jump, wallet? Her being polite, "Sir, excuse me, Sir" could have been her mode for "getting in the door". If you are hustling/panhandling on the street you're going to get ignored.
I'm not against helping someone but it's better to be cautious than to be dead.
Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.
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