A pest approached me this morning

This is a discussion on A pest approached me this morning within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Thanks for the complements No Way 2 and Hot Wing. Something for me to share to everyone that all of us can learn. Glad the ...

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  1. #106
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Thanks for the complements No Way 2 and Hot Wing. Something for me to share to everyone that all of us can learn. Glad the situation went in my favor.

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  3. #107
    Member Array tashunkwitko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    As I was walking around my neighborhood after cleaning my S&W Model 457 .45 pistol, I then stopped at a convenient store just to get something like a snack or drink. Outside the store, 2 black teen in dreads were staring at me and whipering to one another. Glanced them back while maintaining my distance and then went inside. I then went outside to finish my mango juice and then those same 2 teens are still outside the store doing the same thing. I then glanced at them again. One of them then asked me why I am looking at him. I glanced at him again and went on my way. One was observing me at the curb as I was walking to the opposite direction. I then continued on my way while keeping calm while maintaining my situational awareness for assymetrical threats. No escalation, no bloodshed but I was ready to defend myself if needs be. Also had my H&K USP, OC, and tactical knife too.
    I don't know about you guys but every time I see one of those clean shaven, clean cut Wall street, prof'l, banker looking types in a suit I am more worried about those guys ripping me off (i.e. my stocks, 401K, 403b, house, property, outsourcing jobs, etc) than some American teenage kid (who by golly happens to be of African descent) in dreads and baggy jeans- BFD. If you are a grown man, odds are 100 to 1 that those kids fear you 1000x more than you fear them. Growing up in the hood, one thing my pops taught me is that we all breathe the same air, we all drink the same water, we all love, laugh, cry and most of all we all bleed the same blood and we all die. Fear no man, but the great creator himself. I personally Don't buy into the phoney anitquated concepts of "races" and "racial profiling", but I guess that should be in a different thread. Oh yeah another thing, prolly those kids are just paranoid and thought you were the Po-Po.
    Totus vestri castrum es nostrum possessia

  4. #108
    Member Array tashunkwitko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigpoppa48 View Post
    Just the other day I was in one of the local Walmart Parking Lots and I usually park way out from the store. I took the time to clean my windshield with some auto windshield cleaner and paper towels when I noticed what looked like a female strolls all the way over(I see her through my vehicle glass with a hoodie ) comes around the side and Speaks "How are you doing" I just stare and she keeps moving, I guess my body language told her that was a good idea and it was, I am so sick and people asking for money lately I guess people figure if you are dressed halfway decent and have a fairly new vehicle that you don't need your own money.
    Hahaha! Great post! You know what BigPoppa48, I do the exact same thing every time some person walks up to me late at night while I am pumping gas and asks for change. I give the Travis Bickel/ thousand yard stare, and don't say a word. The always scurry away so dang fast!
    Totus vestri castrum es nostrum possessia

  5. #109
    Member Array lordofwyr's Avatar
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    Once again, everyone keys up on it being a solitary woman who could not possibly be a threat, or would not possibly be setting you up for a robbery, or would never hold a knife to your neck demanding money. The hoodie thing is just smoke and mirrors. I wear them all the time and I am a cop. My head gets cold, I put up the hood.

    But also remember that criminals do not want anyone getting a clear look at their face.

    So try reading this and see when your warning bells would go off while "assisting this woman."

    Woman Befriends Man on Trolley, Robs Him With Male Accomplice Afterward - La Mesa, CA Patch

    Guys, if I don't want to be approached, if I feel something is wrong, or if I feel that something is just not right, I have the right to be as rude as I like. No explanation is necessary to a stranger.

    I repeat again, and then I am outta this and done, because it is a personal opinion on each person's part. If a hundred thousand years of survival instinct tell you something is wrong, it probably is.

    Just because the wolves decided you had teeth and might fight back and decided to let you pass for an easier, stupider or softer target, that does not mean that you were not in danger. It just means you might have avoided their trap.
    Fortune Favors the Bold!

  6. #110
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    QUOTE=lordofwyr;2167148]Once again, everyone keys up on it being a solitary woman who could not possibly be a threat, or would not possibly be setting you up for a robbery, or would never hold a knife to your neck demanding money. The hoodie thing is just smoke and mirrors. I wear them all the time and I am a cop. My head gets cold, I put up the hood.

    But also remember that criminals do not want anyone getting a clear look at their face.

    So try reading this and see when your warning bells would go off while "assisting this woman."

    Woman Befriends Man on Trolley, Robs Him With Male Accomplice Afterward - La Mesa, CA Patch

    Guys, if I don't want to be approached, if I feel something is wrong, or if I feel that something is just not right, I have the right to be as rude as I like. No explanation is necessary to a stranger.

    I repeat again, and then I am outta this and done, because it is a personal opinion on each person's part. If a hundred thousand years of survival instinct tell you something is wrong, it probably is.

    Just because the wolves decided you had teeth and might fight back and decided to let you pass for an easier, stupider or softer target, that does not mean that you were not in danger. It just means you might have avoided their trap.[/QUOTE]

    Couldn't have said it any better than that..
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

  7. #111
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tashunkwitko View Post
    Oh yeah another thing, prolly those kids are just paranoid and thought you were the Po-Po.
    What I was wearing that day of that close call was a leather coat (sort of similar to the one worn by Al Pacino in "Carlito's Way"), leather motorcycle gloves and a leather cap. That sure doesn't look like the typical dress of Five-O and I always dress to blend with my environment. My race has nothing to do with it since people of different colors go to that spot everyday. And, I haven't seen those 2 youths at all since then.

  8. #112
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI View Post
    I'm about as non-politically correct a person can get, but hoodie = criminal just doesn't make sense to me. A large portion of the populace wears hoodies, so I would say that you can profile a person by the total outfits they are wearing, maybe even the type of hoodie they are wearing, but not just that they are wearing a hoodie. That's just me though! I'm wearing a hoodie in my profile picture, do I look like a criminal?
    I did not read the entire thread hopefully I have no posted before. Some common sense helps.

    We get it all the time, wearing old leathers, we must be dirty low life bikers. One morning on a remote rural road my wife's back broken, both of us covered in blood no one stopped for over two hours. Despite being injured in pain we managed to get our 700 pound bike off the road so no one would get hurt hitting it. But no one could stop or call for help. Four hours later I tested positive for morphine and Valium. Must of been because I was a dirty dope fiend biker partying all night. Not because I was on a gurney, with tubes up my nose down my throat in both arms and a catheter up my johnson awaiting emergency surgery from having a 700 pound bike slam me face first into a guard rail at forty miles an hour. Took eighteen months and nearly 20K to get the persecutor figure out that my wife was on the way to assist in a mastectomy. On the road at 5:30 so she could be at work by 8 in Seattle.

    Point is SA is important but it does not mean freak out without provocation. I see throwing my hand up demanding a lady stop because she is wearing a hoodie is over reacting. From the available info at worst she was a pest, not worth mentioning. Must be a very boring life that this is a noteworthy event.
    suntzu likes this.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  9. #113
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Point is SA is important but it does not mean freak out without provocation. I see throwing my hand up demanding a lady stop because she is wearing a hoodie is over reacting. From the available info at worst she was a pest, not worth mentioning.
    For the love of Pete, as I've already stated the stupid hoodie did not dictate my response in any way. How can I say this with certainty? Because I told her to buzz the hell off before I saw the freaking hoodie! I fail to understand why some here seem to be so hung up on the damned thing. She could have been wearing a stinking prom dress and would have gotten the same reaction.

    Must be a very boring life that this is a noteworthy event
    Thanks for jumping to that conclusion and making that assumption. And you wonder why people assume your some stupid low life biker trash? Your making the same kind of assumptions about me.

  10. #114
    Member Array Woodsman's Avatar
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    Whenever someone I don't know speaks to me, my alert level goes up a bit, but I usually react with just a hard quiet stare (my wife will tell you I have a crabby face). If they ask me for money, whatever....I simply say "No" while looking them right in the eye.

    As an aside.....I don't see a hoodie as a criminal accesory, but I see a "hood up" in an odd place....indoors, in the summer....as a red flag. A few local banks here have signs on the door that say "remove hood upon entry to bank".

  11. #115
    Member Array Rhcmlc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Ohhhhh - scary......black teens...dreads......staring....

    Good job keeping calm and not deploying your entire arsenal on them....

    At least you would have shot them down with a clean pistol. That's important. The jury would see you were a concientious gun owner.

    If you spotted them outside the store and felt they could possibly be a threat, why did you go in and risk your life for some mango juice? When I see potential trouble, I am not interested in proving anything or thinking, "I have a right to do this or that." I just go the other way. It makes life simpler for me. You obviously weren't overly concerned about being violently assaulted, or you wouldn't have continued on your quest for refreshment.
    I would've put my life at risk for mango juice...it's damn good stuff
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  12. #116
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    For the love of Pete, as I've already stated the stupid hoodie did not dictate my response in any way.
    Really? Than your previous statement was untrue? You previously said

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    There wasn't anything obviously suspicious about her. The hoodie was normal attire for the weather, but I admit I did profile because of it.
    Now you are saying the hood had nothing to do with your response because as you claim

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    How can I say this with certainty? Because I told her to buzz the hell off before I saw the freaking hoodie!
    If that is true than there is some serious lack of awareness on your part. If someone is wearing a hat ,a hoodie, or is bareheaded I am aware of it the instant I notice them. Hard for me to imagine how you could see someone and not know they are wearing a hoodie.
    A little confusing. Based on what you have said, you profiled her and may have over reacted based upon her wearing a hoodie that you now claim you did not see her wearing. I agree, hood or no hood IMO you over reacted to a non event and brought attention to yourself by creating an unnecessary scene

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    She could have been wearing a stinking prom dress and would have gotten the same reaction.
    Did you post because you wanted feed back, an honest answer and observation or do you went a pat on the back for a non event? Are you one of those kids who grew up thinking they deserve a trophy for playing even though yours was the losing team? If so sorry this is not the atta boy you were looking for. Not trying to beat you up either, but the picture you painted is absolutely absurd.

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    turned 90 degrees, giving me a full view of what had been behind me while not directly exposing myself and I saw that I was being approached by an early 20's white female wearing a hoodie. I put my (gloved) left hand out palm towards her (stop gesture - i.e. a physical fence) and started to say, "I can't help you, don't approach",
    A grown man in a bladed stance his "gloved" hand thrust out demanding some little girl to stop. Like Superman stopping a runaway train or a traffic cop stopping traffic is an over reaction to a non event IMO. Nothing in your OP or subsequent posts lead me to believe that she was a threat.

    The whole point of situational awareness is to avoid standing out, being unnoticed to avoid conflict and confrontation. Do you believe the spectacle that you made of yourself made you go unnoticed? You obviously did not avoid conflict you created it and brought attention to yourself. Who was watching? Observing your over reaction? Marking you as a possible target. Here are some rules you may want to consider.

    Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
    No one is suggesting you pick the girl up or become her new best friend but a courteous response to at least allow her to let you know what her intent was would not have hurt you and would have provided you with more information

    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet
    Again being civil will do you no harm and costs nothing. As Bigkahuna explained in his post at least I hope he was being facetious to provide an example how needless rudeness can cause avoidable conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigkahuna View Post
    Well, just last Monday I was coming home from a nice few days off in Delaware. I was not carrying (I have a New York Permit) anything except my ZT301. My wife was in the car with me as we stopped for gas on US1 about a mile north of Rehoboth, Delaware. It was about 10pm. As I pulled into the station my SA went up a notch as it usually does at night. Nobody was on my side of the quickmart type station and I began filling my car. Around the corner comes not some Hoddie wearing 20 year old female, but a guy in his late 30s early 40s over 6 feet tall and outweighting me by a good 75 lbs. Baseball cap, long dirty hair and dirty beard, flannel shirt and jeans complete the picture. As soon as he sees me he starts with the "Hi buddy, how ya doing" crap. Purely on instinct the hand came up and I told him to stop right there. He stopped and said he wasn't going to hurt me. To which I replied,"I know you're not!" He started to move again and I said don't come any closer. His tone changed and he started to say something about how this is the United States of America and we don't treat people like this. He saw my License Plate and suggested that I should go on back to New York. He got a bit more belligerant. I didn't say a word. Finally he turned around and left. Had things gone south, there wasn't much I could have done except give him a gasoline bath.
    A simple "good how you doin" and continuing to go about his business ignoring the guy may well have avoided the whole incident. As it was in this scenario he painted himself in a corner where a gas douche was his only option, if the guys intentions had been hostile. Based on what you've posted both examples yours and Bigkahuna the strangers reactions seem to indicate that their intentions were innocent and the reactions you gave them offended them. Perfectly understandable, most people would be if they said hi or wanted to ask someone the time and they got a hostile Rambo, Superman stopping a speeding train response.

    Situational awareness is a term I have only learned ten or so years ago. Just as ten years prior to that at thirty I learned that not everyone had been in a knife fight or two by the time they were 20, everyone I grew up with had been. Obviously that is not the norm. I thought that situational awareness is something everyone learned instinctively by the time they hit puberty as a normal survival mechanism. It is what we all learned, so as not to get their head caved in, again. What I know is that in the heat of the moment you may not be able to identify why your alarms are going off but after the event if you cannot articulate what put you on alert and are second guessing yourself, you probably (not always but most likely) over reacted. For example; If she was approaching strong side bladed away from you, her hip hiding what was in her hand or the palm of her hand was facing away from you fingers cupped as if she was hiding what she was holding, a knife or club up her sleeve. The look in her eyes or tone of voice did not match the words she was saying. She eyes were furtive darting around as if she was looking for someone (an accomplice?), there was apprehension or fear in her eyes. Again nothing in your OP or subsequent posts lead me to believe that she was a threat, more importantly not once have you been able to articulate why you reacted they way you did. I strongly suggest you back it up a notch before you create a problem when there was none to begin with. Focus you energy on observing not reacting. Look for the guy no one notices that is the guy you want to be like. No one asks him for anything because he is unnoticed. Watch how he acts, try to emulate that. Learn how to assert yourself quietly. There are a hundred ways to let someone know you do not want to be bothered without creating a spectacle or offending them. My wife says people know I do not want to be messed with just a look or flick of my wrist. Maybe because of how and where I grew up but I don't see why that cannot be learned. As you noted I do not know you well enough to make specific suggestions. Maybe a martial art course gain some confidence in your martial abilities?
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  13. #117
    Member Array pacman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    To me hoodie=criminal or criminal in the making.
    To me = ignorant.

  14. #118
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    I like to keep my business to myself, thank you. Now step away.

    I generally won't reciprocate by asking them anything about themselves, because I generally don't care.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  15. #119
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacman View Post
    To me = ignorant.
    I have friend who wears a hoodie frequently. He's a graduate of West Point and a Gulf War vet. He's built and sold two tech companies and is worth tens of millions of dollars. I suppose you'd label him "ignorant" simply for the hoodie.

    What's you definition of "ignorant"? Someone who deosn't dress like you?
    Last edited by MadMac; March 25th, 2012 at 09:45 AM.

  16. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacman View Post
    To me = ignorant.
    My son wears a hoodie almost everyday. He got accepted to Wake Forest and will be attending in the fall. Guess he slipped through the cracks.

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