Is ever ok to "just show" your CCW?

This is a discussion on Is ever ok to "just show" your CCW? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; $20.00 give or take... plus shipping, from many Amazon book dealers. It is out of print. Should not be... but since it is 31 years ...

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Thread: Is ever ok to "just show" your CCW?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    $20.00 give or take... plus shipping, from many Amazon book dealers. It is out of print. Should not be... but since it is 31 years old some of the information is out of date. It's not quite as old as The Bible... but certainly an equivalent for those of us who carry a gun.

    Buy it: In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection By Massad Ayoob

    Here's a link to the page on Amazon that has new and used copies. >>> Link<<<

    In the end, yes IMO, there are times when you could expose a holstered weapon to defuse a situation before it happens... But not "pull." Once unholstered, you had better have a reasonable belief that you are in danger of death or grave bodily injury... (Texans, disregard) and be 110% prepared to use it... It should be an extremely rare occasion in which a firearm is unholstered and not fired at a BG. (not just rare for you, rare across the board of all Concealed Carriers.

    Now, If LA is a state which allows open carry... you can go that route... But my cursory check of handgunlaw.com does not indicate it is an open carry state.

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  3. #17
    Member Array Crescentstar's Avatar
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    You would have to face a serious threat to expose your weapon in my state. (Ohio) Otherwise, you would most likely be charged with aggravated menacing. You would also need to report the incident to the police ASAP. Never underestimate the BG's cunning. All he has to do is call 911 first and report you to try and turn the tables on you. "I was minding my own business, and this lunatic pulled a gun on me for no reason!"

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    Pulling a firearm on someone is a good way to get shot or arrested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescentstar View Post
    You would have to face a serious threat to expose your weapon in my state. (Ohio) Otherwise, you would most likely be charged with aggravated menacing. You would also need to report the incident to the police ASAP. Never underestimate the BG's cunning. All he has to do is call 911 first and report you to try and turn the tables on you. "I was minding my own business, and this lunatic pulled a gun on me for no reason!"
    "So I shot him".

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescentstar View Post
    You would have to face a serious threat to expose your weapon in my state. (Ohio) Otherwise, you would most likely be charged with aggravated menacing. You would also need to report the incident to the police ASAP. Never underestimate the BG's cunning. All he has to do is call 911 first and report you to try and turn the tables on you. "I was minding my own business, and this lunatic pulled a gun on me for no reason!"
    Since Ohio is an open carry state, simply exposing a weapon should not lead to any charges. That being said, I carry concealed and would NOT expose a weapon unless I intended to use it. And I would only do that if I felt my life or the life of another was in imminent danger. I want the tactical advantage of the BG not knowing I am armed.

    However, if you did choose to reveal your weapon, I would heed the advice of the above poster and call the police ASAP for the reasons he gives.
    Live to ride, ride to live. Harley Road King And keep a .45 handy Kimber Custom TLE II

  7. #21
    Member Array ponchsox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toytruckman View Post
    No No... I work with several people the have said they would think to "show" their CCW to defuse. It was more of a curiosuity to see what most think. Trust me I take this very serious and I catch the drift of what is being said.
    That is a terrible idea. In fact, you may further infuriate someone by showing them your CCW. They will think "what are you going to do, shoot me?" Next thing you know, they call the cops first and tell them someone is threatening them with a gun. You need to read up on the laws in your state. Also pickup a copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" by Ayoob.

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Hey toy: Aside from the comments you have already received concerning state law and the term brandishing, let me mention a situation that happened on christmas eve in 2010 in Bluffton SC. Without all the details, an individual opened his jacket to show someone he was having an argument with the gun he had in his waistband. The guy who opened his jacket is now dead and the other guy will be tried shortly on manslaughter. The point is not what happened overall, the point is that you "show your CCW", you are now the person causing someone to think imminent danger and you can die. THAT ALONE SHOULD TELL YOU IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA regardless of state law or definitions of brandishing. Presumption of imminent danger of death or great bodily injury is the precursor and only precursor that truly makes sense, and if it ends well with the danger slinking away as you were prepared to discharge your firearm--that is not brandishing, it is a smart decision by a stupid BG.
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    You've got good answers so far.

    I'll only add that I use a card at the pump to avoid going inside. To me, going inside, is sometimes like going to a bad part of town.
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  10. #24
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    be the adult and defuse the situation, let it blow over because the aftermath of garbage you will have to endure is not worth it
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by toytruckman View Post
    My question is; had person tried to "do" something outside, is ever ok to "just show" your CCW?

    At what point if "person" is apparently not armed is it ok to try and defuse a situation by pulling your CCW, or is it? And if you pull should you call 911?
    OK. Here's my opinion. From what I can tell from a quick google search, open carry is allowed in Louisiana. So. I suppose a lot of it depends on how you go about "showing" your firearm. If you were just wearing a jacket over your firearm, and just decided to remove your jacket because you "suddenly felt warm" and the bad guy (or questionably bad guy) happened to just see the firearm. You could probably get away with that. However, if you had it under a tucked in shirt and you went out of your way to expose it, then could be interpreted as brandishing. If you had it in a bag, and pulled it out, definitely brandishing. If you had it in your pocket and pulled it out, definitely brandishing.

    Here in Texas, there is virtually no way for me to show a gun to a potential bad guy unless the situation is bad enough to warrant "threat of deadly force" which means I would be justified in brandishing my weapon.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDE101 View Post
    Since Ohio is an open carry state, simply exposing a weapon should not lead to any charges. That being said, I carry concealed and would NOT expose a weapon unless I intended to use it. And I would only do that if I felt my life or the life of another was in imminent danger. I want the tactical advantage of the BG not knowing I am armed.

    However, if you did choose to reveal your weapon, I would heed the advice of the above poster and call the police ASAP for the reasons he gives.
    Definitely have to disagree in this case- if it was already visible, no problem. But, uncovering/exposing it after the initial encounter is DEFINITELY viewed as escalating by law enforcement. "So, you felt threatened enough to let him see your gun, but not threatened enough to have to draw/use it?" - would you want to answer that question posed by LEO or in court?

    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey toy: Aside from the comments you have already received concerning state law and the term brandishing, let me mention a situation that happened on christmas eve in 2010 in Bluffton SC. Without all the details, an individual opened his jacket to show someone he was having an argument with the gun he had in his waistband. The guy who opened his jacket is now dead and the other guy will be tried shortly on manslaughter. The point is not what happened overall, the point is that you "show your CCW", you are now the person causing someone to think imminent danger and you can die. THAT ALONE SHOULD TELL YOU IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA regardless of state law or definitions of brandishing. Presumption of imminent danger of death or great bodily injury is the precursor and only precursor that truly makes sense, and if it ends well with the danger slinking away as you were prepared to discharge your firearm--that is not brandishing, it is a smart decision by a stupid BG.
    Perfect example of what can happen. What if he is a CCer as well and decides that you're threatening him? YOU could very well end up shot.

    I'll put it to you as it was put to me in my CWP class- "If you feel a need to show it, you had BEST feel a need to USE it." Never show, draw, or in any way indicate that you are carrying unless you're about to have to shoot someone.
    The ONLY exception to that rule is if you are approached by LEOs and are in a state where you are REQUIRED BY LAW to notify the officer that you are carrying.
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by toytruckman View Post
    No No... I work with several people the have said they would think to "show" their CCW to defuse. It was more of a curiosuity to see what most think. Trust me I take this very serious and I catch the drift of what is being said.
    As I asked before...do you tell many people that you CCW? Have you considered the ramifications of that? It is certainly a matter of personal preference but many people believe that 'concealed' means 'concealed' and that alot of other people knowing can cause problems.

    I suppose I am overstepping my bounds here, or those of the thread, but as I read the responses, I keep returning to it. Just a point for consideration I guess.
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    I think all the answers all tend to agree, which just may be a first for the internet!
    I will add that there may be some extremely rare instances where you might consider removing your jacket to uncover a gun. (Being followed down a dark alley way by two hoodie wearing punks.) Still not ideal if they are also armed cause now they have a reason to rob you, and they know they need to strike first and hard, or risk you firing at them. This is not something I am advocating, just playing devils advocate here.

    Also, there are several technics that can be used to disarm a situation. It sounds like in this particular case the situation never got to a point of needing handling, but suppose it had. Let's say the guy did approach you outside as you were pumping gas. IF you had time you could have stopped pumping, got in your car and left. Since you already paid for the gas your not breaking the law. You would be out the balance of the gas you paid for, but considering that you could end up in a fight, in the hospital, or having to pay a lawyer thousands of dollars to defend a justified shooting (or even brandishing) charge driving away is a good investment.

    Several other people have in previous threads mentioned other technics that have worked in this types of situations;

    1. Give them a hard, no nosense, "Don't MESS with me stare". This may discourage someone from even starting to approach you. It could also been seen as a challenge to the other guy, as inhim asking, "What are you looking at?" It's kind of a crap shoot.

    2. Someone once said they used humor, they said somethng to the effect "Tommorow if someone ask me if I ever shot someone, I can answer 'Yes'. It's sort of a indirect threat, it might scare someone off, again, it might just cause more anger. If I was going to use humor I think I would try something a little less extreme. Perhaps something like "Not only are they (meaning the gas companies) ripping us off in the wallets, they have to steal 15 minutes of our life standing in their lines."

    Welcome to the forums. This is a great place to spend sometime learning what questions you need to think about, and you should consider reading some of the books mentioned and also take a class or two in ccw classes that teach the law, and explain what you can and cannot do, and tips to get out of bad situations.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    nope
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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolvingMag View Post
    Originally Posted by JDE101
    Since Ohio is an open carry state, simply exposing a weapon should not lead to any charges. That being said, I carry concealed and would NOT expose a weapon unless I intended to use it. And I would only do that if I felt my life or the life of another was in imminent danger. I want the tactical advantage of the BG not knowing I am armed.

    However, if you did choose to reveal your weapon, I would heed the advice of the above poster and call the police ASAP for the reasons he gives.



    Definitely have to disagree in this case- if it was already visible, no problem. But, uncovering/exposing it after the initial encounter is DEFINITELY viewed as escalating by law enforcement. "So, you felt threatened enough to let him see your gun, but not threatened enough to have to draw/use it?" - would you want to answer that question posed by LEO or in court?
    I agree showing the gun for intimidation is NOT the way to go, that being said, I think there is a case to be made for stopping short of the draw, provided the situation meets the requirements that would support drawing and shooting, but having enough time to stop before the draw.

    Example: Attacked by a person with a knife. Your unable to outrun the attacker because of a health issue ( on crutches maybe?). You are however able to get an object between you and him like a table, but he blocks the
    path to the only exit. If you are in fear for your life and he is actually threating to kill you MAYBE telling him to back off and revealing the gun would get him to leave. Since you would be justified in drawing if he comes around the table then you might be OK to show the gun. I don't think an LEO would question why you showed it, but didn't use it. I could be wrong.

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