Is ever ok to "just show" your CCW?

Is ever ok to "just show" your CCW?

This is a discussion on Is ever ok to "just show" your CCW? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Starting off I am new to site and fairly new to CCW: Standing in line inside store at extremely busy gas station, several people in ...

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Thread: Is ever ok to "just show" your CCW?

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    New Member Array toytruckman's Avatar
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    Is ever ok to "just show" your CCW?

    Starting off I am new to site and fairly new to CCW:

    Standing in line inside store at extremely busy gas station, several people in front of me and many people behind me. Two cash registers aprox 6ft apart, one line for both. Person bulls his way in between people behind me and shelving units till he gets to where I am standing, he stops and tells me that I should go to the register on my right. I explain that there are two people in front of me and I am waiting my turn, he does not touch me because by this time I have moved to my left several feet.

    He goes to the register on the right and I to the left. As it works out my side moves at three times the speed of his side so by the time he gets back outside I am well into pumping fuel. Physically he is much larger than I am but at the pump I have my Lab in the truck and son who is pumping fuel, so even though I believe he would have said something, because he was clearly outnumbered he does not.

    I was really trying to be overly nice, and was, and I feel that was why nothing further happened.

    My question is; had person tried to "do" something outside, is ever ok to "just show" your CCW?

    At what point if "person" is apparently not armed is it ok to try and defuse a situation by pulling your CCW, or is it? And if you pull should you call 911?

    Thanks for everyone’s help.
    Dave
    Last edited by JD; January 26th, 2012 at 01:12 PM.


  2. #2
    sgb
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    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
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    You need to seek professional instruction in the proper use of force as it relates to your State. However the short answer to question about exposing your firearm for it's intimidation factor is that you'll most likely get arrested.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Help with situation last night.

    I concur, showing a weapon, at least until force has been shown, or a verbal threat of force sufficient to warrant the use of deadly force could be problematic.

    The other factor is that as a citizen, you probably can't respond with deadly force to a 'simple' assault.

    You really need to try to gain a more thorough understanding of the use of force laws for your state. My opinion is that this is usually covered inadequately in CC classes, so it is incumbent upon you to seek additional training. The books and videos by Massad Ayoob would be a good place to start.

    Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk

    Edit: if you display your weapon for justifiable reasons and your opponent stops their threat, you should call 911 quickly. Before they do, in fact, else you may be deamed the aggressor.
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    Intentionally "just showing" your weapon is called "brandishing" in many states and is highly illegal.

    Nowhere in your post have you indicated that this person has threatened you or performed any intimidating act other than being physically larger than you. Why in the world would you feel it necessary to show, or draw, your weapon?

    I have seen nothing in your post to indicate any reason for you to have felt threatened, and am beginning to think you may just be looking for a reason to either: A) Show off to the world that you are armed and dangerous. or B) Draw a reaction form the forum that will allow you to show others that CCW carriers are a bunch of bloodthirsty savages.
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    Member Array TaterSalad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toytruckman View Post
    My question is; had person tried to "do" something outside, is ever ok to "just show" your CCW?
    No, that would be brandishing a weapon, unless you felt your life was in danger.

    Quote Originally Posted by toytruckman View Post
    At what point if "person" is apparently not armed is it ok to try and defuse a situation by pulling your CCW, or is it?
    For men, I'd say practically never. For a female, they might be able to get away with it by claiming "disparity of force", but I doubt that will work for you unless your 5'1" and weight 100lbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by toytruckman View Post
    And if you pull should you call 911?
    If your justified in doing so, you always need to contact the police.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Was he wearing a hoodie LOL Just kidding Noway. Your answer is spot on. Question is ambiguous anyway. Too many variables and a hypothetical
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    Member Array lordofwyr's Avatar
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    I am never a fan of just "flashing" a weapon in plain clothes. I don't want them knowing I am armed at all until and unless I have to draw and am ready to fire.

    If there is a situation where it looks or feels hinky or like something is just wrong (I trust my lizard brain to let me know when something is wrong), my first action is to look around, make sure I have the lay of the land for exits and cover or more bad guys, then start thinking about getting to a place where I have something solid behind me (step out of line like you forgot something - what is the rush anyway?), because you should always assume there is at least one more Bad Guy than you know about.

    I am all about surprising the Bad Guys. If they are set on robbing or harming me, they are already dealing with multiple things mentally in their own right, and the human mind can only process and work on just so many things before it starts to reach the overload point, slowing them down mentally, and I want my pulling of the weapon to be the final tripwire to overload their ability to think, hopefully slowing their reactions down and catching them on the hop.

    And the main kicker on situations where someone is being an ass, a jerk or bulling their way to the front of the line at a store is to remember that even though it is really really annoying, what they are doing is obnoxious, not illegal, and that if I say something sarcastic, it may then focus them on me instead of everyone else in the store, and then escalate from annoyance to them attacking me in particular, leading to a shooting where the police and the DA are definitely going to ask me, "Well, why the hell did you stir it up? The guy was obnoxious but not doing anything illegal until YOU said something." Not a good way to start explaining the use of deadly force.
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    New Member Array toytruckman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    Intentionally "just showing" your weapon is called "brandishing" in many states and is highly illegal.

    Nowhere in your post have you indicated that this person has threatened you or performed any intimidating act other than being physically larger than you. Why in the world would you feel it necessary to show, or draw, your weapon?

    I have seen nothing in your post to indicate any reason for you to have felt threatened, and am beginning to think you may just be looking for a reason to either: A) Show off to the world that you are armed and dangerous. or B) Draw a reaction form the forum that will allow you to show others that CCW carriers are a bunch of bloodthirsty savages.
    No No... I work with several people the have said they would think to "show" their CCW to defuse. It was more of a curiosuity to see what most think. Trust me I take this very serious and I catch the drift of what is being said.

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    Member Array Bill Lindsay's Avatar
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    sgb is spot on. Get advice from a lawyer that works the criminal cases.

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    I agree with everything that was said. Although, your SA should be your best friend after he did that. Keeping aware of what was going on, was he in a rush? Why does he want to get to the cash registers quickly? Is there alone? Once outside, is he watching me? especially outside you need to be alert, if he selected you as a target, drawing your attention for someone else to sneak up on you. Hows your dog reacting? These are all SA suggestions. Dont get paranoid, but get in a mindset where you use SA and do it all the time subconsciously.

    I agree go to classes get more trainning, learn statelaws, talk to lawyers. Never pull/brandish your firearm, for some tough talking person. Let them talk, its their actions you should watch, if directed at you and a weapon/physical threat that can cause great bodily harm or death comes into play, then you could be justified.

    Now i was not there, these are my thoughts/opinions. We all act/think different but i hope this helps you down the road in the future. And welcome to DC from S.E. wisconsin.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by toytruckman View Post
    Starting off I am new to site and fairly new to CCW:
    Standing in line inside store at extremely busy gas station, several people in front of me and many people behind me. Two cash registers aprox 6ft apart, one line for both. Person bulls his way in between people behind me and shelving units till he gets to where I am standing, he stops and tells me that I should go to the register on my right. I explain that there are two people in front of me and I am waiting my turn, he does not touch me because by this time I have moved to my left several feet. He goes to the register on the right and I to the left. As it works out my side moves at three times the speed of his side so by the time he gets back outside I am well into pumping fuel. Physically he is much larger than I am but at the pump I have my Lab in the truck and son who is pumping fuel, so even though I believe he would have said something, because he was clearly outnumbered he does not.
    I was really trying to be overly nice, and was, and I feel that was why nothing further happened.

    My question is; had person tried to "do" something outside, is ever ok to "just show" your CCW?
    At what point if "person" is apparently not armed is it ok to try and defuse a situation by pulling your CCW, or is it? And if you pull should you call 911?

    Thanks for everyone’s help.
    Dave
    Two things come to mind. First, sgb is 100% correct:

    You need to seek professional instruction in the proper use of force as it relates to your State. However the short answer to question about exposing your firearm for it's intimidation factor is that you'll most likely get arrested.
    Second, you need to add something to your toolbox between words and the gun. Pepper spray, impact tool, HTH training, etc. If your only tool is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail...
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    You might visit Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc. for a free download of "What Every Gun Owner Needs to Know About Self-Defense Law."

    You're smart to carry always; you're wise when you avoid needing to bring it out use it.
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    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Your gun exists to kill an assailant. Period. It's not a replacement for other safety tools.

    Almost every state requires you to face imminent death, grave bodily harm, or sexual assault (normally interpreted as a woman facing rape or sexual assault).

    I don't read anywhere in that definition using a firearm to threaten, "defuse", or anything else. Until you learn the state laws for lethal self-defense in the states you carry, you are a risk to yourself and others.

    You need an education, and you need it BEFORE you start carrying around a lethal weapon.
    GunGeezer and wmhawth like this.

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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    ToyTruckMan I'm very glad you came looking for answers and hope that you will do more investigation into your state's laws...and into more training. Both of the latter will make you feel more comfortable carrying and more secure in your actions.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toytruckman View Post
    No No... I work with several people the have said they would think to "show" their CCW to defuse. It was more of a curiosuity to see what most think. Trust me I take this very serious and I catch the drift of what is being said.
    Do many people know that you CCW?
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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