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Reply With QuoteBut - but, what if...?
This is a discussion on in diner and this happens... would you be ready? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by farronwolf So you're going to get into a gun fight or shoot an innocent person just because "you're the one who took ...
LOL, Please enlighten me as to what you would do. I never said that I would shoot the innocent person. Just said he should listen. I guess Ill play off topic with you...Whats your answer to this scenario.....Originally Posted by farronwolf
So you're going to get into a gun fight or shoot an innocent person just because "you're the one who took the BG down"?
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Blessed be the Lord my Rock, who prepares my hands for War and my fingers for Battle. Psalms 144:1
But - but, what if...?
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid, you step out of line, the man come and take you away "For What It's Worth" by Buffalo Springfield
Retired USAF SMSgt. Photo is my Seabee dad w/ 1911, Tinian, WWII. He built the pit used to load the A-bombs.
Exactly.......LOL
www.citizenxdefense.2ya.com
Blessed be the Lord my Rock, who prepares my hands for War and my fingers for Battle. Psalms 144:1
What if grasshoppers had machine guns? LOL
Sorry, you can really "what if" yourself to death around here.
Chances are if someone just watched you shoot a bad guy and stood up and announced that he, too, had a CCW he's not just whistling dixie. Unless he was a LEO he probably wouldn't be telling you to drop your gun either.
If he was a bad guy he's likely not going to take the chance of telling you anything opting instead to just shoot you. The fact that he is attempting to communicate with you at all is a sign he's more-than-likely legit. It doesn't mean he should automatically be trusted but eventually there DOES have to be a level of trust displayed on both parts in order for two good guys to get out of the situation alive together.
Body language, circumstance, they are all going to be evidence as to whether or not you can trust what someone is saying.
Was he there when the bad guy walked in? How long before the bad guy walked in was the person sitting there? Was he alone? Did he look like he was waiting for someone? Did he show signs of being nervous or anticipating something? These are signs that he might have known something.
On the contrary, if he came in twenty minutes before the bad guy with his wife and three kids complete with hamburgers, frenchfries and milkshakes and looked easy and comfortable, chances are he is probably not in on it.
This is all part of situational awareness and being able to read a scene for potential danger.
There has to be some give in take and communication in order for order to be established and eventually there has to be some trust. When the police arrive and yell, "POLICE! DROP YOUR WEAPON!" You aren't going to stand there and say, "How do I really know you are the police?" are you? Probably not without eventually taking a bullet.
Part of carrying a gun is knowing when the gunfight is over and deciphering how to communicate what happened and with who and how to let someone else take the reigns.
The video is extremely simplistic for the point it's trying to make. As someone who's made videos for Youtube that have been wildly pulled out of context and beaten to death because I failed to show XYZ, I can appreciate how hard it is to throw in the FULL dynamics of a real self defense situation. They were trying to portray one single aspect not the entire gauntlet.
As I said above, part of carrying for self defense is learning how to recognize when to let go.
I agree that if the gun isn't pointed at you you are probably looking at a potential good guy. If he is communicating with you instead of just shooting at you, he's probably a potential good guy. And, yeah, you MAY have to show some good faith by at least lowering your firearm to a low ready.
Personally, I'd be seeking cover as soon as possible and scanning for additional threats so that if the other guy with a gun WAS a bad guy and started shooting at me I have something to stop the bullets. We can do all of our communication and deciding who is good and bad with some solid structures between us. That way I can more safely determine whether or not he should be trusted.
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Lima,
I understand they can't cover everything, and wasn't trying to add too much to the scenario. Simply a reminder that there will be lots of other stuff going on, and communication between the two good guys is likely going to be hampered by the chaos of all the patrons trying to get themselves out of the immediate area. This adds another layer to overcome when communicating with the other fellow.
You're absolutely right that something solid between you and everyone else, including the fellow with the gun would possibly enable some "clarity" to the communication process. If he or I are staring directly at the others guns whether pointed at each other or not we probably aren't going to be communicating at our best.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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It's wrong, slow, fails to seek cover, talks (fercryinoutloud). I wouldn't look to these idiots for any SD advice.
I agree with you, about the slow and not seeking cover, but the point was more of communication, when/if you every encounter another permit holder......
Great video, hadn't seen that one... I frequent (have a link) on my computer to there site. they always have good info
I would rather live my life as if there is a God,
And die to find out there isn't, than live my life
As if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
God Bless
[QUOTE=paramedic70002;2155927]Another reason to not act like an LEO and take prisoners. CHPers should shoot the threat down. If you don't want to be mis-IDed as a killer and shot yourself, yell something WHILE you are shooting, and after. Hopefully the shooting will be over before anyone else reacts. Or it will be over before you, the second CHPer, refocus on the new potential threat.
"Drop the (BANG) gun!" (BANG BANG)
This doesn't really address the OPs scenario but.....generally speaking.
I don't know about anyone else, but if I am in a deadly force situation I don't know if I would have the focus or presence of mind to yell, scream, issue voice commands, etc. Unless you are trained to do that I don't know if many would. In my opinion, once you have cleared leather you should be focused on the threat and following up with your shoot, don't shoot assessment.
Yelling "DROP THE GUN" or something like that serves many purposes.
1. Serves notice to the BG that the game is up.
2. Gives BG a chance to disengage, surrender or run.
3. Draws witnesses to see and hear what's going on. Many may not even be aware there's a robbery in progress.
4. Lets witnesses see that you, the GG, gave the BG a chance and didn't "shoot him down like a dog/in cold blood."
At this time it's important to mention a few things. Not to be prejudicial, but you should be dressed decently, or at least not like a slob. Have a proper stance. Look like you know what you are doing. Sound like you know what you are doing. Perception is reality. Saying, "He made me shoot him" may seed the witnesses' memory and perception of the event. Once the shooting is over and there is no longer a threat, give direction as necessary to the witnesses. Be in command. Ask witnesses to stay and give a statement to the police.
Also note when the fecal matter impacts the air propulsion device, your sensory perceptions will be altered. This in effect will supercharge your decision making and action times, giving you the impression that things are moving a lot slower than they really are. Of course the BG will probably be under the same physiologic adrenalin dump, and may be chemically enhanced as well.
Yelling "DROP THE GUN" or something like that serves many purposes.
1. Serves notice to the BG that the game is up.
2. Gives BG a chance to disengage, surrender or run.
3. Draws witnesses to see and hear what's going on. Many may not even be aware there's a robbery in progress.
4. Lets witnesses see that you, the GG, gave the BG a chance and didn't "shoot him down like a dog/in cold blood."
As a CCW holder I don't have to give the BG a chance by yelling "drop the gun" to shoot me or run. He is there with the intent to take /shoot. If shooting him down IN cold blood is needed; so be it! The whole idea of CC'ing is to have the element of surprise and when you yell "drop the gun" it gives them a chance to react and maybe shoot you first (yea I know everyone here is an expert) but that is a chance I am not willing to take. I live in Texas and we don't have to retreat before using deadly force and I for one am not giving them a chance to see if they are better than me.
I can 'think' I'm ready for anything, and have read enough on the Internet to be able to say all the right things to make it sound like I can back it up - but when the times comes I'll probably freeze up, curl into a ball and cry like a baby. Heck, I'd probably get shot trying to decide which gun to use.
But... it's much more self satisfying to think I'd be in control of any given situation because of what I've read and watched on the Internet. :)
Most of us have never been in a situation that even remotely threatens our lives, some I'm sure haven't even been in a physical confrontation (fist fight, wrestling, etc).
All I hope to get from any of this is awareness and any slight edge it may provide is a bonus.
In the end, should anything like this ever happen, I hope my protective and survival instincts take over and I amaze myself with my actions and all ends just as it does in my head.
It's not just self satisfying, it's beneficial.
Visualizing yourself doing well and winning have a good impact on actual performance.
Yes, practice and preparation are necessary but so is thinking positively and visualizing success. Read the book The Warrior Mindset it talks a lot about the subject.
Limatunes' Facebook PageEven death is a poor excuse for not fighting back.
Limatunes' (aka limalife) Youtube Page
Central Iowa Defensive Training
[QUOTE=paramedic70002;2155927]Another reason to not act like an LEO and take prisoners. CHPers should shoot the threat down. If you don't want to be mis-IDed as a killer and shot yourself, yell something WHILE you are shooting, and after. Hopefully the shooting will be over before anyone else reacts. Or it will be over before you, the second CHPer, refocus on the new potential threat.
"Drop the (BANG) gun!" (BANG BANG)
I think I prefer
" (Bang,Bang,bang) Drop (Bang) the (Bang) Gun (Bang) Or I'll shoot.
Great post!
I know from my own experience that if I am confronted with a life or death situation or threat of pysical violence I have not demonstrated the capacity to speak. With me I believe it is truly fight or flight. On occasion I have fought when I should have flew but that's story for another day. :)
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