Underground garage "situation" - still bothers me

[Goldy49]

This happened to me over 25 years ago and I still wonder what was the best action to take on my part. This took place before I had a CC permit. I'm not sure that made any difference.

My father was in in his mid eighties and lived by himself in an apartment about 70 miles from me. Every Wednesday I would drive up to see him, have dinner with him, and normally take him to the bank for deposits and transfers, etc. Occasionally, we would deliver bank deposits for an apartment buddy of his.

OK, one night we took his car and went to the bank, had dinner, and came back to the apartment. We took his car into the underground garage, parked, and started toward the elevator. At this point in time, four or five young guys (18 to 25?) kind of
"surfaced" from the shadows of the garage. I know now that I have to be more aware of my surroundings, but I knew no better in 1985 and I think my dad and I walked into something we shouldn't have walked into. Now, dad was 84 at the time and I was about 45 and neither of us are very big (5'6", 150 pounds), but, unfortunately that has never stopped us from speaking up. These kids were hassling us more then a little and it was a little intimidating. We also had bank books on us that contained a lot of money. Dad told the kids to get lost, "don't bother me anymore." and tried to ignore them as we walked toward the elevator. I didn't want to get on the elevator and have these guys enter the elevator with us. I asked dad if he could take the steps (two flights) and he could. I figured the steps were better because it offered two escape routes - up or down. The kids never followed us and as far as I know they never bothered my old man again. I got him pepper spray to carry after that. He said he carried it, but I don't know.

Anyway, how would you handle that underground garage situation? What would be the best protocol?

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Freedom Doc]

Sounds like your Dad did fine, verbally warning them off and they left you all alone after that (that's the way I read it).
So, sounds to me like they were young and green or perhaps worried you all might have a weapon. But in general what you described can be a real problem...

[claude clay]

I've enlightened my ladies to drive a bit past a space and back in. it allows them (or anyone) to see a bit more of the garage...between the cars surrounding 'your' space. and backing in makes leaving very much easier. also when you walk back to your car go past it; gives you a look-see at the spaces between other cars. there's more, but relative to your being 'found' near the elevator--eyeball that area before you park.
i know if there is a line of cars behind you all this may not be possible---but if there are lots of cars in motion, it diminishes the likelihood of punks anyways.

strong eye contact and straight posture may be effective with punks of oppertunity...but having lost the element surprise and
having been seen well enough to draw a picture of, like you & your dad did...defused the situation.
well done.
---------------
jerp makes a very good point about the call button in the elevator

and today there a usually cameras...i think if you pressed 'help' someone would be talking at you through the grill. anything to make a punks life more difficult is good.

[jerp]

Well in your situation, personally, i would have taken the elevator. If something should happen on the stairs, now i dont know your father but at 85 im assuming not very strong or quick. As i have recently learned though, they do have witts, but should somethjng have happened, a push and your father might have tumbled down the stairs... its easier for him in the elevator, and you might have some push against those guys to keep them out, but the elevator probably has some emergency bell, or call button for emergency or something...

Now a days, I would have told them to stop harassing us, or i would call the police with my cell. Even after you did get by and nothing happened i still would have called the police as they are probably up to no good in the garage especially if they acted like that. My .02

[dukalmighty]

It was 1985 you came out of it just fine,I wouldn't say you are "troubled" by the experience,but are constantly thinking what you could do different so you don't find yourself in a similar and more hostile situation.

[kelcarry]

[QUOTE=Goldy49;2155049] I know now that I have to be more aware of my surroundings, but I knew no better in 1985 and I think my dad and I walked into something we shouldn't have walked into.
QUOTE]

Best part of your thread. SA, IMO, is 99% of defense. Who, what, where, when. In SC, something like what you describe is just the scenario that, in SC, YOU CANNOT HAVE A FIREARM CC. You have just been to a restaurant serving alcohol--CC is not allowed. So now it is night and you are going into a darkened garage to retrieve your car unarmed and essentially defenseless. It is probably the numero uno reason I would want to CC and I cannot. There is no way I can explain having a firearm on my person after the facts come out that I was in a restaurant serving alcohol--I am not interested in clearing a legal hurdle based on the law and a bigger legal hurdle based on a civil suit should I actually injure or kill a BG. Breaking the law does not absolve me from civil problems even though SC absolves defenders of civil suits in a good legal shooting--I may not face jail or a fine but what I did was illegal and I do not believe that I have absolution from civil matters.

[WD54241]

Jerp is correct with his logic mid 80's things were different. Today never put keys in pocket. keys could be used as a defensive tool and if tshtf hit the panic button on the control of the keys, underground or above the noise would be substantial. Always try and park closest to the elevator or in a well lit area. Avoid parking spots where it's poorly lit or where the light is out. in the 80's cell phones were to big if at all avail. Today I'd have the security desk or management office number preprogramed so it could be speed dialed if time permits. Pepper spray is a very good idea provided your loved one has no respitory issues. A lot of good advice from others.

[jerp]

[QUOTE=kelcarry;2155740]

I know now that I have to be more aware of my surroundings, but I knew no better in 1985 and I think my dad and I walked into something we shouldn't have walked into.
QUOTE]

Best part of your thread. SA, IMO, is 99% of defense. Who, what, where, when. In SC, something like what you describe is just the scenario that, in SC, YOU CANNOT HAVE A FIREARM CC. You have just been to a restaurant serving alcohol--CC is not allowed. So now it is night and you are going into a darkened garage to retrieve your car unarmed and essentially defenseless. It is probably the numero uno reason I would want to CC and I cannot. There is no way I can explain having a firearm on my person after the facts come out that I was in a restaurant serving alcohol--I am not interested in clearing a legal hurdle based on the law and a bigger legal hurdle based on a civil suit should I actually injure or kill a BG. Breaking the law does not absolve me from civil problems even though SC absolves defenders of civil suits in a good legal shooting--I may not face jail or a fine but what I did was illegal and I do not believe that I have absolution from civil matters.

In no way shape or form am I attacking what you believe.

Now IMO, here in WI we are allowed to carry in a restaurant that serves, as long as we do NOT drink. In your case of not having a firearm, because it is your belief, because it is illegal. My belief, is simple. As long as i am not gonna drink (my BIG belief, no gun if drinking) is, Id rather be judged by 12, then carried by 6. Now if i drink i have no gun, my choice. Alcoholism runs in my family, and i choose not to become that, and would rather be able to protect my life, then get drunk. DO NOT get me wrong ill drink every now and then, but gives me motive not to turn out like some of my family

[barstoolguru]

so the saying goes " a coward dies a thousand deaths and a hero but one" and by no way am I calling you a coward but how something can come back and haunt you over and over and eat at you. Sometimes talking about it helps and maybe give you the closure you seek.

[kelcarry]

[QUOTE=jerp;2155811]

In no way shape or form am I attacking what you believe.

Now IMO, here in WI we are allowed to carry in a restaurant that serves, as long as we do NOT drink. In your case of not having a firearm, because it is your belief, because it is illegal. My belief, is simple. As long as i am not gonna drink (my BIG belief, no gun if drinking) is, Id rather be judged by 12, then carried by 6. Now if i drink i have no gun, my choice. Alcoholism runs in my family, and i choose not to become that, and would rather be able to protect my life, then get drunk. DO NOT get me wrong ill drink every now and then, but gives me motive not to turn out like some of my family

I appreciate .your comment and your tone, which is a thoughtful comment on my reply. In SC, even if you do not drink, having the firearm on you can only mean you were in the restaurant that serves alcohol; may not be a cause for a gross criminal act but bet your bippee a lawyer and a civil case cannot be far behind. It may not get prosecuted but a civil lawyer will argue that you being CC was illegal whether you drank or not and that will still cost you $$ in legal expenses and probably in damages, if the firearm actually caused injury or death, even though the BG was a slimebucket. Cannot argue with your "judge by 12 not carried by 6"; I will carry spray or a stun and be extra careful in my SA to the point that if I cannot find the parking I want, I will go elsewhere.

[jem102]

You did well and made good decisions for the situation at that moment in time.

[paramedic70002]

I'm guessing you are about your Dad's age now? Maybe that's why you're thinking about it?

[ctr]

I would have personnally retreated back to the car. The vehicle would be a safer option than the elevator or the stair well. Also, a vehicle, or row of parked cars can provide a barrier between the threat and yourself. No way would I have taken an elderly gentleman into the stairwell. All is hindsight though.