Happened on my block this past weekend, tell me what you think

This is a discussion on Happened on my block this past weekend, tell me what you think within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Seriously, happened on my block just the other night while I was at work. Realize...this is in Arkansas and we have no castle doctrine. Please ...

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Happened on my block this past weekend, tell me what you think

    Seriously, happened on my block just the other night while I was at work. Realize...this is in Arkansas and we have no castle doctrine. Please feel free to elaborate on this shooting and the news footage in the link. I live within 300yds of where it happened. Neighbors are finally starting to talk. I figure the prosecuting attorney goes for manslaughter, but there's a chance that public opinion might change the way things are looked at here in the big city college town. Remember.......dial 911 when you get a chance!

    Police: Resident Shoots, Kills Home Invader - Video - KHBS NW Arkansas

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    From the video, it sounds like a good shoot. The neighbor is for no charges (not that that matters) and the cop indicated it sounded like a good SD shoot (reading between the lines), but he left room for the DA to move forward. Given that he knows the DA (as does the OP), it sounds dicey for the appartment dweller.

    To me, he gave notice that he was armed and told the invader to get lost. Invader gets lost but comes right back - sorry about your luck, but you are doing a B&E in an occupied bedroom... In my opinion, the DA should no-bill this one if it has to go before the GJ, otherwise, drop it.
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    Tragic... but, dumb on the part of the deceased. Wonder if "terminal stupidity" will be listed as the cause of death.
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    Smitty
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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I believe that while it is a horrible thing that happened the person who shot the intruder acted responsibly. He should not be expected to put himself in harms way in order to protect the life of someone who is making a bad decision.
    You have to make a split second decision when you believe your life is in danger.

    Michael

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I didn't get any hint of a 911 call between attempted break-ins though....that's what bothers me...and the fact the apartment dweller did not secure the residence after the first attempt. What's missing might come to light this week. The neighbor appears to know little about our state laws and protecting home, property, or self. I have no idea why they interviewed her unless she heard the shots and called 911. Odd sort of deal.

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    DC
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    A lot of details are unknown. If the intruder was really in the wrong apartment you'd think he wouldn't have been aggressive and it would have been obvious to the tenant. Did it seem like a "oops, wrong apartment" the first time? If so, the second time coming through the window might have been an obvious "oops again". Who will really know.

    If the "intruder" was acting violent in either instance then I say it might have been justifiable. If not aggressive at any time the shooter may have avoided the kill by better accessing the situation.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I believe that while it is a horrible thing that happened the person who shot the intruder acted responsibly. He should not be expected to put himself in harms way in order to protect the life of someone who is making a bad decision.
    You have to make a split second decision when you believe your life is in danger.

    Michael
    Thing is...there was a first time and the attempt was thwarted......what did the occupant do after this to responsibly defend himself against further attempts? At this point I'm thinking both were irresponsible. Think about it, watch the report again, and listen to the account. It's going to be a learning experience for us all, especially for Arkansas residents.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC View Post
    A lot of details are unknown. If the intruder was really in the wrong apartment you'd think he wouldn't have been aggressive and it would have been obvious to the tenant. Did it seem like a "oops, wrong apartment" the first time? If so, the second time coming through the window might have been an obvious "oops again". Who will really know.

    If the "intruder" was acting violent in either instance then I say it might have been justifiable. If not aggressive at any time the shooter may have avoided the kill by better accessing the situation.
    Shouldn't have been a second time if the occupant was being responsible for his own safety. How about locking the window or dialing 911 to report the first attempt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Shouldn't have been a second time if the occupant was being responsible for his own safety. How about locking the window or dialing 911 to report the first attempt?
    I've gotta agree with you. The BG leaves first without incident, even if you don't think he'll come back, call the cops! At the very least in hopes that they'll catch him and he won't be able to go traumatize other people!
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    What if the resident thought he came back with a gun the second time? This is a justifiable shooting IMO. The suspect committed a felony not once, but twice after being warned by the resident. This is why every state needs a clearly written law on castle doctrine so there isn't any fuzzy area and left up to the judgement of a prosecutor.

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Thing is...there was a first time and the attempt was thwarted......what did the occupant do after this to responsibly defend himself against further attempts? At this point I'm thinking both were irresponsible. Think about it, watch the report again, and listen to the account. It's going to be a learning experience for us all, especially for Arkansas residents.
    I see your point and agree that the occupant could have done more. However I would not say that he had an obligation to do so. He did not in any way cause this mistake to happen. He was minding his own business inside his home when it was invaded. I place full responsibility on the person breaking in.

    We hear this same argument all the time when something like this happens. What if it was a drunk neighbor at the wrong house? What if it was some kids preforming a harmless prank? What if it was a cop serving a warrant? we can what if it to death.
    What I ask was did the occupant do anything to initiate this tragedy? Did he do anything to cause the break in? Should residents of homes be held responsible for the welfare of those breaking in?
    Blame the victim?

    Michael
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    I agree that it would have been prudent for the appartment dweller to lock up after the first attempt. However, I am not aware of any laws that require you to sleep with your windows locked. The BG coming through the window, locked or otherwise, is committing a crime. AR needs a Castle Doctrine law to clear this stuff up. Otherwise, what is the appartment dweller expected to do - leave the appartment so the BG can have it?
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    Understanding that Arkansas does not have Castle Doctrine, unless there is a specific "Duty to Retreat" law I would hope it ends up being a good shoot.

    If there is a duty to retreat, I think he's almost certainly going to be charged with some degree of voluntary manslaughter.

    I would hope however, the DA sees this for what it is. That it is a justifiable shoot.

    The man breaking and entering really should bear the responsibility in this, whether he thought he was going into his own home or not. The homeowner, clearly warned the deceased that he was armed and to get out. Turning around and trying to get back in after that, one has to wonder if the deceased was intoxicated. Also that he regularly locks himself out of his apartment lends me to think he may have a diminished mental capacity or may be chronically intoxicated. At any rate, be that as it may, is it everyone else's responsibility to be his keeper?

    One thing I didn't get was what was the time frame between the two incidents? That is going to have a bearing on how the prosecutor decides how to proceed. How much time did he have to call 911 or secure his windows better?

    It's an interesting case based on a state which does not have Castle Doctrine. I am very interested in hearing how this ultimately plays out.
    -Bark'n
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    DC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Shouldn't have been a second time if the occupant was being responsible for his own safety. How about locking the window or dialing 911 to report the first attempt?
    You are 100% right. Also mentioned by the OP, why wasn't the window secured. I hadn't thought of that. Also he should have called 911 of course.

    So many "off" things about this case.

    I'm also wondering about how far into the apartment did the man enter in, both times. Also, what was his behavior? Was he drunk/ high and acting belligerent.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponchsox View Post
    What if the resident thought he came back with a gun the second time? This is a justifiable shooting IMO. The suspect committed a felony not once, but twice after being warned by the resident. This is why every state needs a clearly written law on castle doctrine so there isn't any fuzzy area and left up to the judgement of a prosecutor.
    While you have one good point IMO, I think you've missed two in the process.

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