get home, and a stranger is in your home... - Page 3

get home, and a stranger is in your home...

This is a discussion on get home, and a stranger is in your home... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So I probably should have shot hundreds of people during my college career. Roommates man, they can suck sometimes, but they save money....

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  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    So I probably should have shot hundreds of people during my college career.

    Roommates man, they can suck sometimes, but they save money.
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Your name alone on the lease may be a violation of your lease if you have room mates. (in response to your latest post).

    I do think you over reacted, a bit. Clarify things with your room mates.

    You could try a "standard" room mate agreement... (you'll be forwarded to you tube to watch the following vid)

    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  3. #33
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    here is an oppertunity to think about "if i had a second gun in a vest pocket" i would have stood in the kitchen doorway and, with my hand in pocket wrapped around the charter arms, asked---"and you would be..." and his answer came back---Linda's ( my girlfriend who has a key) brother. he was, and no one ever knew i had a gun pointed at him. that was 30 odd years ago.

    did you overreact.....ya, sorta
    not properly dressed for the occassion...ya, that too.

    ----------------
    that secondary, in its tailored vest pocket, has allowed me over the years to have many calm conversations and interactions ( with packs of dogs also)
    that have all ended well. and only twice did the other conversationalist ever know it was even there.
    Arthritis sucks big-big
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    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  4. #34
    Member Array tet4's Avatar
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    This may not be popular, but my impression of this event isn't so much if there was an over-reaction or not, or what was legal or not, but maybe your mindset for carrying a gun may need to be re-evaluated. While I think the castle doctrine laws are very good (for many different reasons) I think that before a gun comes out of the holster you need to be pretty sure you are going to be using it in the next few seconds. (And, by 'using' that doesn't mean it has to be fired.) This applies in the home as well, and especially if you share it with others.

    I carry a gun as a last ditch tool that one day may help me stop someone from killing me or my family. But, it's going to only come out after I know what's going on and I've decided there's nothing else I can do. It doesn't come out every time something fishy happens.

    Note that this isn't very different than the scenario in which a bump happens in the middle of the night. Of course, I grab a gun to go investigate but that gun is going to stay in its holster, hidden, until it needs to be used. Note that this is not only a good practice to keep you from shooting someone you didn't want to shoot, but it also is the best way to keep your cards hidden until the chips are down. In your situation, if he had turned out to have been a home invader, your quick reaction would have escalated a fight immediately. He was cornered, 5 feet from you with a knife. Wouldn't it have been much better to nonchalantly said, hello, taken a few steps back into the other room, as if to go put something down, and asked who he was? This would have given you valuable space and time to figure out what was going on before possibly forcing a fight.

    So, next time, don't jump the gun. :-)
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  5. #35
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    A good reason why I haven't had roommates for years. You never know for sure who's supposed to be there when you get home, and if anything disappears, you have no recourse.

    Also, as another poster said, when you sublet part of your home, the living spaces become common areas. Just like a dorm, the only place that's 'yours' is your bedroom.
    Hopyard likes this.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

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  6. #36
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    JMO. Shared home with roommates, yeah you may have over reacted a little... Single family home with no roommates, no, and no just no, but hell no. If there's roommates involved you've gotta keep that variable in the back of your mind regardless of the situation. No roommates equals no reason why someone should be in your home when you open the door, whole different story and set of variables. One would be, if you live in an apartment verses a home that you own. Sometimes maintenance may need to gain entry for emergency pluming or what not in an apartment setting, but obviously for a homeowner that's not a viable excuse for anyone to enter your home uninvited. Anyway, just my opinion on the subject. Glad everything worked out okay for everyone. I think I'd have a talk with the RMs and go over the RM do's and don'ts regarding guest if it was my apartment.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    JMO. Shared home with roommates, yeah you may have over reacted a little... Single family home with no roommates, no, and no just no, but hell no. If there's roommates involved you've gotta keep that variable in the back of your mind regardless of the situation. No roommates equals no reason why someone should be in your home when you open the door, whole different story and set of variables. One would be, if you live in an apartment verses a home that you own. Sometimes maintenance may need to gain entry for emergency pluming or what not in an apartment setting, but obviously for a homeowner that's not a viable excuse for anyone to enter your home uninvited. Anyway, just my opinion on the subject. Glad everything worked out okay for everyone. I think I'd have a talk with the RMs and go over the RM do's and don'ts regarding guest if it was my apartment.

    Most rental agencies have a door hanger on your doorknob when they're inside your home and you're not.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  8. #38
    Member Array DocPMD's Avatar
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    This has already been pointed out by others, but Castle Doctrine may not have helped you in this scenario. I can only give you my interpretation based upon the Colorado law:

    2. Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any
    degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has
    made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person
    has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry
    , or is committing or intends to commit a
    crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes
    that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant
    .

    So, at least in Colorado, there are three components that all must be satsified before you would be "off the hook" so to speak. The first one is where you would likely be in trouble. Case law here has established that "unlawful entry" is as simple as an uninvited person. You would be at the mercy of a judge and jury on that one, because the guy definitely hadn't made an "unlawful entry" by any definition. The question would be what would have been reasonable for you to believe. Since you have roomates, who knows?

    You might also have a difficult time explaining what crime you thought he was up to.

    The third criteria was the only one that was clearly met - the guy had a knife, so I think it would be reasonable to assume that he might use physical force.

    The interesting question in my mind relates to what his options would have been. From his point of view the second and third criteria were definitely met - you pointed a gun at him. But you also hadn't made an "unlawful entry". So he would have been in a similar situation as you. What would have been "reasonable belief"?

    Your laws are probably worded differently, but at least here in Colorado you would be in for a legal fight if you had shot the guy.

    Did you over react? In hindsight, yes. But hindsight is always 20/20. Luckily, you did the right thing (didn't shoot the guy) and everything turned out OK. But this thread is a good reminder for all of us that "Castle Doctrine" doesn't usually mean that you can just shoot any stranger who shows up in your home.

    Glad it worked out.

    Doc
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  9. #39
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Most rental agencies have a door hanger on your doorknob when they're inside your home and you're not.
    I didn't know that... All I remember form my rental days was a mandatory 24hr advance notice for any scheduled maintenance.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    I didn't know that... All I remember form my rental days was a mandatory 24hr advance notice for any scheduled maintenance.
    I doubt it's required by law, but I can see it being a common sense safety measure. I've just noticed it every time I've had maintenance done... if I show up when the guy's there, I have a big door hanger, and if he's been and gone, the door hanger is on my kitchen table with a summary of work on the back.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    That sounds reasonable enough... Plus you at least know that someone had entered your home and what the reason was..
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  12. #42
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    I'm going to take a very negative view of the whole scenario. I think there was no reason to present the gun.
    Zero.

    You know you had roommates. You likely knew they were at home; which they were. Maybe you saw a car in a driveway or parking lot. Maybe it was a backpack on the floor. Something was sending you signals that all was OK, even if you chose to ignore them.

    The guy you drew on probably was sending signals that he belonged. He was cooking. Maybe smiling and saying hi. The knife probably was not being held in a threatening manner. He didn't have anyone's belongings in his hands. The lights were full on. You think a real intruder would do that? You think a real BG would be in the house with the lights full on and NOT wearing some sort of garment for face cover?

    I think you ignored a whole bunch of stuff that should have tipped you off that there was no threat but then went ahead and drew on the guy anyway.

    Based on this thread and several of your other posts, I have a harsh bit of advice for you which you won't like and won't take.

    Put the gun away for the next three years till you grow up.
    Last edited by Hopyard; February 8th, 2012 at 06:26 PM.
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  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    This is why one would pay the extra cost to live along vs with others.
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  14. #44
    Member Array ponchsox's Avatar
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    This all could have been resolved peacefully with a simple question "what are you doing?"

  15. #45
    Ex Member Array AdBro's Avatar
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    I would not have drawn on a chill dude in my kitchen when I have 2 roommates.

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