Would you get into a fist fight while carrying?

This is a discussion on Would you get into a fist fight while carrying? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Simple answer: Make it very obvious to the assailant that you have a nice bullet with his name on it, keep your sights on his ...

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Thread: Would you get into a fist fight while carrying?

  1. #31
    New Member Array TwittcH's Avatar
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    Simple answer: Make it very obvious to the assailant that you have a nice bullet with his name on it, keep your sights on his forehead and call the police, this is called a citizens arrest. Now if he produces a weapon, with the obvious intent of killing his victim or you, put two in his head, do not shoot to wound, he'll just sue you.

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array Kimberpackn's Avatar
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    I would avoid the fight...avoid the place where fights are likely to occur...should I be approached by someone who acts with intent to harm....that is one of the reason I carry a gun....don't bring a fist to a gun fight

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  4. #33
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darebear View Post
    Well that is pretty crappy logic. What about the folks in states that aren't allowed to conceal carry? Should I not feel for them if they become victims of crime. What if you had a family member that wasn't comfortable carrying any type of weapon and was attacked? So when the cops respond too late are they allowed to say "You didn't take adequate steps to protect yourself other than just being a upstanding tax paying citizen"? And you say "they're getting exactly the protection they paid for"... We are paying taxes for the same protection that they awarded. Are you saying that because we carry guns we are entitled to a higher level of protection? No sir. You are responsible to take the same appropiate actions as a unarmed citizen. Don't think so, ask the people who shot first then called the cops later when they should have called the cops first...............
    your a bit flawed there. The people in "those states" voted for what they got. I am responcable for no one but my self. I may take part in anothers situation but in no way am I responcable.
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  5. #34
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    I'm an old man...never pick a fight with an old man...

    He'll either call 911 or...
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  6. #35
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    If I see some guy or a few guys bracing a little kid, older fellow, or a woman, I may watch for awhile. Hopefully, they will notice me watching them and understand that the odds have changed. If he or they get out of line, then I call the cops. If it gets wild in a hurry, then yeah, I gotta jump in after calling the cops. I cannot stand by and watch somebody with no way to defend themselves get their head busted. I find it unlikely that they will continue their assault on the victim with me watching, and not come after me as well. I dunno. Too soft hearted, I guess. But if I knew somebody was in a lot of trouble and did nothing to stop it, I'd have a hard time shaving.
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    You started asking one question, but ended with another. The first scenario was a barfight type situation, the second is a group of people ganging up on someone else.

    IANAL, but: the answers to your questions lie in the concept of Disparity of Force - check your state laws. I'll use MO as an example; if a group of people are beating/raping a single person lethal force is justified, either by the victim or a witness. If the barfight is btwn two people who are very different in size/abilities, like one outweighs another by 100 lbs, one is disabled (temporarily or permanently), etc, disparity of force applies. Anyone who carries should know this if it applies in their state. Inanimate objects not normally considered weapons can be considered lethal weapons under certain circumstances. Do your research. Once you find your legal answer, ask yourself if you are willing to get involved and under what circumstances.

  8. #37
    Member Array R.W.Dale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darebear View Post
    Well that is pretty crappy logic. What about the folks in states that aren't allowed to conceal carry? Should I not feel for them if they become victims of crime. What if you had a family member that wasn't comfortable carrying any type of weapon and was attacked? So when the cops respond too late are they allowed to say "You didn't take adequate steps to protect yourself other than just being a upstanding tax paying citizen"? And you say "they're getting exactly the protection they paid for"... We are paying taxes for the same protection that they awarded. Are you saying that because we carry guns we are entitled to a higher level of protection? No sir. You are responsible to take the same appropiate actions as a unarmed citizen. Don't think so, ask the people who shot first then called the cops later when they should have called the cops first.

    And I'm not talking about being superman because we carry guns, I intervened in situations before I carried a gun. Quite the contrary I'm asking HOW (if I should at all) should I intervene in a extreme situation now that I carry and how would you. And as far as "extreme situations" go, that's just what I mean. Extreme life threatining situations, not a boyfriend beating up on a girlfriend. Not a lady getting her purse stolen. I'm talking about life threatining situations like the two I mentioned in which both involved innocent bystanders that just stood by and watched.
    The world is a pretty crappy place.

    If I play the hero bit and get killed you guys will appluad me as a fine citizen standing up for right in the world gone mad.

    The problem is none of you or anyone else will provide for my widow and children, put them through school or teach them right from wrong so they can not become the kind of thugs I died standing up to.

    No I do more good in the world coming home to my kids every day than I do getting shot trying to prevent your great aunt from getting her meds stolen.

    To quote the overused analogy I'm not a wolf nor am I a sheepdog. I'm the well disciplined Doberman who'll sit on the doorstep he's charged with guarding and watch with ironic interest as the sheep and lone sheepdog across the street get ripped to shreds by the wolves.

    The only protection or anything else in life we're ENTITLED to is what we earn and do for ourselves. So yes the fact that I've worked hard earned the money, put myself through training and pay for the permit does indeed afford me better protection than a lemming going through life in condition white.

    posted via tapatalk using android.

  9. #38
    Member Array darebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    Don't go to stupid places and do stupid things with stupid people. How on earth are you finding yourself in places where stupid people get on you?

    Think about that.
    Twice at TGI Fridays and once at the local mall in a upper class neighborhood. Stupidity isn't just allocated to the city and ghetto's, I've been drawn into confrontations by the rich preppy frat boys too.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwittcH View Post
    Simple answer: Make it very obvious to the assailant that you have a nice bullet with his name on it, keep your sights on his forehead and call the police, this is called a citizens arrest. Now if he produces a weapon, with the obvious intent of killing his victim or you, put two in his head, do not shoot to wound, he'll just sue you.
    At which point do you flash your concealed carry badge? Or will the sash be evident enough?
    multistage likes this.
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  11. #40
    Member Array darebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbrenke View Post
    your a bit flawed there. The people in "those states" voted for what they got. I am responcable for no one but my self. I may take part in anothers situation but in no way am I responcable.
    Come on, you know like I know that's not how it goes. For example I think it's funny how Obama won in a landslide yet when you ask around NO ONE voted for him. Same thing with our previous President Bush.

  12. #41
    Member Array darebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    You started asking one question, but ended with another. The first scenario was a barfight type situation, the second is a group of people ganging up on someone else..
    Just throwing hypotheticals out there. I don't rememeber asking about a barfight, I don't go into bars and even stated that earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    IANAL, but: the answers to your questions lie in the concept of Disparity of Force - check your state laws. I'll use MO as an example; if a group of people are beating/raping a single person lethal force is justified, either by the victim or a witness. If the barfight is btwn two people who are very different in size/abilities, like one outweighs another by 100 lbs, one is disabled (temporarily or permanently), etc, disparity of force applies. Anyone who carries should know this if it applies in their state. Inanimate objects not normally considered weapons can be considered lethal weapons under certain circumstances. Do your research. Once you find your legal answer, ask yourself if you are willing to get involved and under what circumstances.
    Our state laws here in PA justifies lethal forced used against a/the perps that are attacking and raping another. I don't know if I wasn't reading it good enough but I didn't see the word beating.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by darebear View Post
    Twice at TGI Fridays and once at the local mall in a upper class neighborhood. Stupidity isn't just allocated to the city and ghetto's, I've been drawn into confrontations by the rich preppy frat boys too.
    Agree that stupidity knows no boundaries, just like crime.

    However, if I got into three situations with budding violence since within the last year (or however long you have had your carry permit/license), I'd seriously assess whether I am doing anything that contributes to this. Think bravado, the downfall of many an otherwise fine young man. I've got at least a couple of decades on you, and the last time I was ever in a verbal altercation was in 1988, when I stepped in front of a guy at an airport to grab my bag. He didn't like that. He then grabbed his bag and "bumped" me in the leg. He and I had some stern words, but nothing else. I was in my early twenties.

    Had that happened today, and had I been carrying (not at an airport, of course), I would just say "excuse me." If he shot off that I stepped in his way earlier, and that this was payback, I'd just say "Oh, sorry about that."

    Just an observation, and I may be wrong, but your question re intervention, your comments re good looking friend and possessions - all seem to hint of a bit of an inflated ego and bravado. This is not a personal insult, please don't take it that way. I was 25 once, had more testosterone then. Just make sure that you can swallow your pride when you carry. I call it the concealed carry zen. Doesn't mean that you have to let every jerk have his way with you, but you need to be doubly civil, you need to know when you should just walk away to avoid escalation, and, most importantly, you need to know how to avoid ever getting into a situation from which you need to walk away.
    Rotorblade and JDE101 like this.

  14. #43
    Member Array pappou68's Avatar
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    Most of us are not LEOs. They receive training to deal with situations almost daily that we citizens might encounter only once or twice in a lifetime. Granted intervention seems warranted when a life is at stake but an understanding of the situation is a must. I know some states have a good samaritan law designed to protect those applying needed medical help. I don't think those laws extend to citizens trying to protect other citizens from needing that medical help in the first place.
    When the SHTF I hope and pray I can make a proper decision about my course of action.

  15. #44
    Member Array darebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    Agree that stupidity knows no boundaries, just like crime.

    However, if I got into three situations with budding violence since within the last year (or however long you have had your carry permit/license), I'd seriously assess whether I am doing anything that contributes to this. Think bravado, the downfall of many an otherwise fine young man. I've got at least a couple of decades on you, and the last time I was ever in a verbal altercation was in 1988, when I stepped in front of a guy at an airport to grab my bag. He didn't like that. He then grabbed his bag and "bumped" me in the leg. He and I had some stern words, but nothing else. I was in my early twenties.

    Had that happened today, and had I been carrying (not at an airport, of course), I would just say "excuse me." If he shot off that I stepped in his way earlier, and that this was payback, I'd just say "Oh, sorry about that."

    Just an observation, and I may be wrong, but your question re intervention, your comments re good looking friend and possessions - all seem to hint of a bit of an inflated ego and bravado. This is not a personal insult, please don't take it that way. I was 25 once, had more testosterone then. Just make sure that you can swallow your pride when you carry. I call it the concealed carry zen. Doesn't mean that you have to let every jerk have his way with you, but you need to be doubly civil, you need to know when you should just walk away to avoid escalation, and, most importantly, you need to know how to avoid ever getting into a situation from which you need to walk away.
    Def not taking that as a insult. I'll admit, I don't have the sarcasm filter and sometime people don't like sarcasm. I will take this advice to the heart, it convicts me but thats what good advice and teaching does. Thanks.

  16. #45
    Member Array Olduser's Avatar
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    I think we get too soon old and to late smart...
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