That's a very tough question to say you will definitively do one thing or another. If I'm close enough where I can grab the wrist or gun I would attempt to disarm him before trying to draw on him. It's also possible to have control of the wrist/firearm of the assailant and be able to safely draw your firearm if you are on the dead side or on the ground. These are not easy things to do though and takes a lot of training. I've had several weeks dedicated to firearm disarment work in Krav as well as work on it several times a week at home. While I am very efficient even against a fellow student who resist even knowing what I am doing, I understand things change when your adrenaline is pumping and it could mean the difference between life and death for you or a loved one.
The only other way I would draw is if there is enough distance between the assailant is if there is cover or concealment nearby. Create a non complex diversion, while drawing getting to cover at speed. Depending on the situation I may be able to return fire while running. Of course this option is out the door with my family.
For me, very likely if there was more than 5 feet between the assailant, my family and I very likely would have to comply. I'm not a super ninja or anything so I know what my limitations are. If my situational awareness fails my family and I, all of a sudden it is going to take some luck survive regardless of my self defense abilities or decision on how to handle the threat(s).
If you do anything at all please let it be getting off the x first, or at least while you are drawing and moving to the shooters side.
very situation specific. I have drawn and survived but made some HUGE mistakes during the incident. Would I again? Depends on ALL the variables.
I was cornered, there were other people's lives in danger and they caused him to look away from me for a second and my gun was already in my hand
underneath the counter. If the situation was set up like that again, yes, I would probably draw again. Other things were factors too. The guy obviously
wasn't a regular shooter; it was dificult for him to physically reach me if he were to try and disarm me; There was a big safe behind him and between
the other people who were being threatened (my shots would not have put the others at risk).
Overall, there are just too many specifics that come into play to give a reasonable hypothetical senario.
I think that I would be much better prepared dfor that senario than I was, but it would be all the little things that influenced my decision.
There is a big difference in the scenarios.
Originally Posted by shockwave
I think it's safe to assume that most BG's aren't going to expect anyone to make a move against a gun. So the BG would not be mentally prepared to pull the trigger. It would take a minimum of 1 to 1.5 seconds for the BG to process what is happening and take a shot. So if you were to "get off the X" and make a fast draw, you would have a chance.
In comparison, if I draw on someone I've already made the decision to pull the trigger. If the BG flinches, he's eating lead. There would be no lag time.
All that said, I'm probably not going to make a move. Too risky.
First, I would never assume what is in the BG's mind. You need to make a decision on things you can control or the enviroment yoou are put in. Second I agree with your last sentence except it is all situation dependent.
Originally Posted by DocPMD
That's precisely why I say it's too risky. But I stand by my assumption. BG's target sheep and don't expect to find a wolf.
Originally Posted by suntzu
There is a pretty good article here regarding close combat techniques. It's recommended reading.
I encourage everyone to have minimum hth skills. There will usually be a small window to disrupt (OODA), deflect & counter.
My belief is FIRST;
- improve SA continually.
- find cover if possible
However, "IF I'm going against the drop--
- I either want to be in the bg's face or 25' (plus) away.
Distance is your friend. But, sometimes you want "minimal" distance and sometimes you want MAXIMUM distance. If I have to face a BG with a gun or knife, the more distance you have, the more time to get to cover.
"IF", I'm within 20' of an armed BG with NO available cover, I want to do what I can to get as close as possible because I can't run ANYWHERE.
I'm disabled. But, if I can get a bg within arms reach I can disarm him. If I can get within arms reach I feel I will have a good chance of making it out alive. This is true with one individual bg or "multiple" bgs. I've been in situations where I had to use similar tactics to get out of situations. I've been teaching my wife & children and some friends how to prepare in the same way.
The potential to face "drawing against the drop", is one reason I chose to begin to CC in the AIWB position. (You can blade, deflect, counter, move & draw a lot easier & bring your firearm into play much, MUCH faster!)
There is no blanket for this scenario, too many variables for that. In any case, your best option might be to feign having an attack (heart/asthma or whatever). Drop to the ground and hope one of 2 things happen. Either it scares the BG off, or it distracts him long enough top draw and fire.
I like the throw the wallet from weak side as already stated and take a shot .
It’s just money and CC's; all can be replaced with time. Me; I’d throw the wallet it a direction away from me and draw if I could when he goes to recover it otherwise let him have it and maybe get a shot in while he is retreating (this is Texas we can do that here)
Just a note: it sucks to be a victim; it eats at you all the time. "What could I have done different" goes through your mind. I had a friend that always carried a gun but left it in his truck one day while eating in a diner. Well the place got robbed and every one in it. All he could do was sit there and be a victim. He had a clear shot at the guy and could have stopped it IF he had his gun. That was over 15 years ago and it still haunts him; its funny how something like that can eat at you.
It depends on the kind of draw:
Okay, now that I got that out of my system, here's an excellent discussion:
If the opportunity presented itself yes
That's similar to how I think about it. Do you really think that this thug isn't prepared to shoot you? They already have gotten the drop on you and yes there can be a wide varieties of how it is going down but I don't kid myself that I can outdraw the guy and get the drop on him. If there is some sort of distraction it could possibly work but remember, any noncompliance with this scumbag whether it be yelling something or dropping a wallet may get you killed.
Originally Posted by shockwave
Months ago there was a similar thread as this and my reply was basically that I would comply and all you heroes just got shot.
It's a lot easier to write on the internet that I'd do this or I'd do that and save the day than when you actually have a gun drawn on you and you're experiencing an adrenaline dump and possibly another kind of dump in your pants.
Force science tested the reactions of a good guy who had the drop on BG while BG had a lowered gun in hand. Actions beat reactions, and BG wins that scenario. It's the time it takes to get the gun in hand that is the problem, unless opponent is distracted or parried. Front pocket snubbie carry with your hand in the pocket, or behind the hip IWB as if reaching for a wallet may be the advantage needed. The right mindset is to make the BG dump in his drawers.