Would you draw on a gun? - Page 3

Would you draw on a gun?

This is a discussion on Would you draw on a gun? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; --if you are hyper-reactive fewer than 2% are and only a few take advantage of it--think major league catcher's reflexes vs an outfielders. yet both ...

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Thread: Would you draw on a gun?

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    --if you are hyper-reactive

    fewer than 2% are and only a few take advantage of it--think major league catcher's reflexes vs an outfielders.
    yet both go to bat so both are much better than the average reflex time of 3/4 second. they are closer to 1/4.
    another way to think about it is in a car going 60 mph you spot trouble and the car travels 66 feet before you
    hit the breaks. the hyper guy travels only 22 feet.

    --if you dress for and practice aquiring your gun such that the action is smooth, fluid...fast as you can be

    think 'gun' and it is in your hand and pointed where you want the bullet to go just waiting for that 'go' command
    which may be given during the acquisition such that as the gun is pointed it is fired. go on you tube and you will
    find events where the draw to 1st shot was under .6 of a second. 1.5 is what an average person can practice to do
    and consider themselves competent.

    --if you can remain calm, observant...quietly alpha

    and time their blinking:

    than you can draw to a gun and win

    Or, if you have martial arts training you may choose to disarm them if conditions favor that.

    doc says 1.5 seconds to react.....lets agree that it happens fast and faster yet when the BG is
    thinking unlike 'rational' people do. he is of the SEE-DO rather than the SEE-Think-DO and thats
    the extra 3/4 second between us.
    ------
    strumruger reminded me of why i carry throw down money and when out of state a throwdown wallet--
    they may take it and/or it may creat a distraction which may be turned to your advantage.
    Last edited by claude clay; February 23rd, 2012 at 02:44 PM.
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  2. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    Grocery Store owner in Belle Glade FL. tried going for the perps gun. Didn't end well for him. Perp was caught and asked why he fired. "Because he went for my gun"
    Just FYI.

  3. #33
    Member Array Sturmruger's Avatar
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    I have ran this situation in my head countless times. My plan is to either throw my wallet or create a distraction. I have heard of people getting shot when the thug realizes that they have no cash. I very rarely carry cash so I see that gong badly for me.

    My favorite distraction is pointing and saying "THE COPS". This will often create fear in the BG and will definitely cause him to look. When I am practicing a lot I can draw and get a shot off at 7 yard an 1.2 seconds. I think I could beat the odds on this one. There are a lot of variables on this one so my plan is not set I stone.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Like suntzu said, you never know whats on the BGs mind. You do not know if he has it in him to shoot or not. If Im alone, Im using my H2H and force on force to turn his action into reaction.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  5. #35
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Wallet holster.
    Deception, distraction.
    Front pocket money clip, tossed.
    "You can't shoot me, I got the juice."
    Que? No intiendo?
    Hay chicaca! pinchi cabron! (not dirty, really)
    or
    Just give him the money...

    It all depends... it allll depends.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  6. #36
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmruger View Post

    My favorite distraction is pointing and saying "THE COPS". This will often create fear in the BG and will definitely cause him to look. When I am practicing a lot I can draw and get a shot off at 7 yard an 1.2 seconds. I think I could beat the odds on this one. There are a lot of variables on this one so my plan is not set I stone.
    I will be very frank. I do not want to be your life insurance salesman.
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  7. #37
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    One thing that has to be considered is what they are after, right? If they want money or my watch, I probably give it up and call it a day. Not worth losing life or limb over. On the other hand, I wear my gold college ring every day. I was the first person in my family to graduate from college, and my grandparents (both deceased) gave it to me. I was very close with my grandparents and the ring is the only thing I truly cherish that I have from them. BG wants that, there's gonna be a battle. My watch is easily worth 10x the value of the ring - they can have that. But not the ring.

    And, of course, it goes without saying that if I think they plan to "take" my life, there's really no choice. Difficult making that determination, though.

    Doc

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    Whether or not I would attempt to draw on a drawn gun is entirely dependent on the situation. However, the main reason I carry a BUG (or call it my primary if you want and my IWB a backup) in my weak side front pocket is so that I can put my hand in my pocket in any situation where I think there is the potential of a threat and have my gun in hand in a firing grip without being obviously armed. Pretty much any time I am walking anywhere I have my left hand in my pocket and my revolver in a firing grip. One of the advantages of a DA revolver (my BUG choice) is complete safety in pocket carry and the ability to start pulling the trigger as soon as the gun indexes toward the target. Granted, it was on the range, but using that method I could consistently get hits center mass on a target 10 feet away in less than a second starting with my hand in my pocket with a firing grip on my revolver.

    ETA: I hope it isn't a bad sign that is post is number 666 for me.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJK View Post
    Drawing on someone who has a weapon pointed at you is a losing proposition. It's not like TV where the good guy always wins; you are simply not fast enough to get off a round before he can.

    That said I will not trust my survival to the good will of a miscreant. One option (and there others) is to create a diversion then stop the attack by employing your weapon. For example, start crying as though in fear, cower down and throw your wallet to the ground on his strong side. Then while he's reaching down with his weak hand step to his weak side, draw and fire.
    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    This situation is what we call, "drawing against the drop." Some thoughts on that:

    3. Why are you even thinking about drawing against the drop? If you've done any kind of training where you are timed for your draw, you know it takes around 1 to 2 seconds to get your weapon into play. Really fast shooters can get under that, but that's in arranged scenarios. In real life, under pressure, with whatever garment and holster arrangement you have, figure 1 to 2 seconds (or more). You should be thinking about slapping the bad guy's gun away and fighting him hand-to-hand. You can do that in well under 1 second.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    If you are going to draw on a drawn gun you must think move first, then draw once you have started to move. (For me that is called GOTX "Getting Off The X") Not getting hit should be the first thing on your mind, then get first good solid hit.

    If you are in arms length of the BG defledting his gun and removing it from the immediate fight situation could be another way to go.If you stand in one spot and try to out draw an already drawn gun you will lose. You have to do something to change his OODA loop first, make him react to your action not your reacting to his.

    I would recommend getting some training from a experienced instructor, then practice what you've learned.

    So to answer your question "Would you draw on a gun?" My answer is YES. And I would expect to win the fight. Yes there is the chance I would take a hit but the BG will not be going to jail, there will be no need to lock him up.

    ^^^^^^^^I am somewhere in between these camps on this^^^^^^^^
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  10. #40
    Member Array Bricks's Avatar
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    There is some really awesome feedback in these posts. I hadnt meant to limit the options to, draw or " bend over" and Im happy that you guys offered so many different suggestions. I particularly liked the ideas about dropping or tossing the wallet to create a diversion or even give yourself time to just walk away. One poster REALLY put things into perspective by turning things around and imagining that you are the one holding someone at gun point. Really good stuff.
    Obviously the scenario cant cover all the what ifs and the best solution is to not get caught in that perdicament at all, SA is key. One of the post suggested that even considering this was an indication that training is needed. I cant agree more. Training is crucial but I think that if you carry on a daily basis, you have to be considering these things because you may have to make the choice.

    I wouldnt, as a rule, draw if someone had the drop on me but I believe if you are going to do it, there is a point in the encounter when your odds are the best. When I was mugged, the BG's let me reach all over my person because they wanted what was on me. I beleive, in the motion of getting your wallet you could get a firing grip on your gun. You could probably even clear the holster and get the gun half way presented before they even knew something was wrong. Getting off the "X" and moving are going to count for alot here. Obviosly your weapon and how you carry it will play a part but if thats squared away and you need to draw, I believe this to be a good way to do it.

    Im not saying this is the final answer or a reason to draw when a mugger has the drop on you but since the BG is willing to let you reach unto your person, you have just been afforded half the time it takes to get your gun out and working, some might argue the most crucial half. Again this isnt a reason to draw in a situation where youre at gun point; many factors will determine your decision, training and good judgement should be at the front of these factors but having a plan is important too. If I felt my life or the life of someone I loved was in danger, and I saw a window, I would take it.

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I agree with those who say that it would probably be a losing proposition. I also believe that if you really believe that the BG is going to harm you then why not at least try to resist. Its not like you have anything to lose.

    Michael
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  12. #42
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    i'm old and slow, but it still beats dead.
    I'm no fool, but if the possibility of my demise presents itself, all bets are off.
    Hopefully this 'slow old man' can change the scenario through anger, trick, and determination.
    If the attempt to save my arse fails, then so be it.
    Every scenario differs...one would have to be there to decide on the best course of action.
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  13. #43
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    I agree with creating a diversion... There is no sense in going against a stacked deck.... With the diversion also start moving... Hopefully I am a better shot than I think I am and he is not!
    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones


  14. #44
    MJK
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911_Kimber View Post
    ... Hopefully I am a better shot than I think I am and he is not!
    Hope is not a plan. Please consider getting some good training and find out ahead of time if you are better than you think you are. Your survival may one day depend on it!
    [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

  15. #45
    RKM
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    If the firearm is semi-auto, honestly, you have a very good chance at grabbing the top of the gun and pointing it away from you before they even know what happened. They won't be expecting it. It also depends on how close they are, who is around you etc. WAY too much to comprehend in 2 seconds. But grabbing the top of a semi-auto, one shot and it jams, it would force them to chamber a new round, and unless they're proficient in malfunction clearing, you'd be able to gain the upper hand. Even a revolver, if you grab the top, you can prevent the cylinder from spinning, of course unless it's already cocked into single action.

    Many things you can do, some riskier than others. You can comply, give them money and hope the run away. If they're close enough to pat you down and risk them finding your firearm, fight back, and possibly disarm. At that distance and disarm probably wouldn't be very difficult. If they're stupid and try to rob you while approaching you, you're options are wide open, run away, draw and shoot, find cover, etc. All of these are just options and not necessary a reflection of what I'd do. There are SO many variables that the best you can do is train and expect the worst. Other than that you need to rely on instincts.

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