Would you draw on a gun? - Page 7

Would you draw on a gun?

This is a discussion on Would you draw on a gun? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Burns Sorry I found this pretty hilarious. If someone had a gun you would rather risk death than give up your real ...

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Thread: Would you draw on a gun?

  1. #91
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burns View Post
    Sorry I found this pretty hilarious. If someone had a gun you would rather risk death than give up your real wallet which is all replaceable?

    Also, don't throw it over his shoulder, drop it on the ground behind him.

    -------------------------------------------------


    9mmare= "I cannot believe the number of people here who would go with the old 'throw the wallet' trick."

    That's because most of the time it works and is the best option you have in some mugging situations. If you're stupid enough to mug someone you're stupid enough to fall for it. I would LOVE to hear a better response from you. Keep in mind if you just give them what they want, you will likely be killed anyway.
    I am tossing the BeeEss flag on the field for that line. Please cite your sources for this "fact" or remove it. It's not good to simpy throw out unsupported "facts" - someone might actually believe this, and make a horrible and irreversible decision based on a false assumption.


  2. #92
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Fine, Mac, I get the point... but the fact is you MAY be killed anyway....

    As to diversionary tactics like tossing a wallet... or as I would prefer, fumbling it and dropping it... buys time, can buy distance... and can give us opportunity...

    That said... the wallet is just stuff... I would rely on my gut to tell me if this was the sort of sick puppy that would off me anyway, even if I comply... And I live with the consequences that my gut could be wrong....
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  3. #93
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Fine, Mac, I get the point... but the fact is you MAY be killed anyway....
    As to diversionary tactics like tossing a wallet... or as I would prefer, fumbling it and dropping it... buys time, can buy distance... and can give us opportunity...

    That said... the wallet is just stuff... I would rely on my gut to tell me if this was the sort of sick puppy that would off me anyway, even if I comply... And I live with the consequences that my gut could be wrong....
    ...and I may get hit by an asteroid today. The issue is never about what may happen. Anything may happen. Anything. It's about the likelihood of the event happening, and the amount of time, effort, and money you should expend to prepare for same.

    The poster I was responding to stated "...you will likely be killed anyway." I do not believe that to be true at all. In fact, I would argue a mugger is statistcally less likely to kill you than your own spouse. Again, statistically. That's how you have to run your life.

    If I assume a mugger is LIKELY to kill me, I will take all kinds of crazy risks to shoot someone who may have the drop on me and get myself killed, while if I would simply comply, we all go on to live another day. A mugger is a strong-arm robber, and not usually looking for a murder rap. Notice I am not making absolute stastements. But to imply you will LIKELY be killed by a mugger, you set yourself up for major problems.

  4. #94
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    ...and I may get hit by an asteroid today. The issue is never about what may happen. Anything may happen. Anything. It's about the likelihood of the event happening, and the amount of time, effort, and money you should expend to prepare for same.

    The poster I was responding to stated "...you will likely be killed anyway." I do not believe that to be true at all. In fact, I would argue a mugger is statistcally less likely to kill you than your own spouse. Again, statistically. That's how you have to run your life.

    If I assume a mugger is LIKELY to kill me, I will take all kinds of crazy risks to shoot someone who may have the drop on me and get myself killed, while if I would simply comply, we all go on to live another day. A mugger is a strong-arm robber, and not usually looking for a murder rap. Notice I am not making absolute stastements. But to imply you will LIKELY be killed by a mugger, you set yourself up for major problems.
    Wow, I agree with him LOL. Life is all about risk assessment. I don't carry while i go for long runs (any runs for that matter). I MAY get shot at or robbed. But chances of a male in good shape wearing running shorts and a cheap MP3 player is not likely to get attacked. In fact it is almost non existent. Of course tha is when folks start googling away and find cases where it did happen. But more to the point. Chances are very much in your favor by complying. I am not saying to do either though. Every situation is different.
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  5. #95
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I am tossing the BeeEss flag on the field for that line. Please cite your sources for this "fact" or remove it. It's not good to simpy throw out unsupported "facts" - someone might actually believe this, and make a horrible and irreversible decision based on a false assumption.
    You could flip on the news. I could change "likely" to "a chance I would never risk" if it makes you feel better.

    Still waiting on what YOU would do. Doing something is a whole lot better than doing nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    why is being a mugger 'stupid?'
    :headdesk:
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

  6. #96
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    edited posts together
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

  7. #97
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burns View Post
    You could flip on the news. I could change "likely" to "a chance I would never risk" if it makes you feel better.

    Still waiting on what YOU would do. Doing something is a whole lot better than doing nothing.

    :headdesk:
    I no longer bother with television news as television media focuses on anecdotal evidence, and frames the news as much by what they DON'T cover as by what they do. I simply don't run my life around anecdotal evidence. I saw a news item where a guy got hit by lightning INDOORS. I didn't make a bunch of structural changes to my house after I saw that, but I suppose I could.

    If you endeavor to grab your weapon to use on someone who has one trained on you, you have already lost the gunfight.

    Sorry - wasn't aware I was being non-responsive. I am not sure what you mean when you say doing "something" is (to use your words) a WHOLE LOT BETTER than doing nothing. As a rule of thumb, I patently disagree. Obviously, in this situation there is no one right answer, so it depends.

    In the unlikely event I was mugged by someone looking to rob me of my wallet and perhaps my (cheap) watch and they had the gun out and pointed at me, chances are I will simply comply. Everything I have is easily replaceable. My life is not. If someone is simply looking to kill you, chances are you'd be dead long before you could even contemplate what to do. See: Wild Bill Hikok, arguably the best pistol fighter of his age.

    Sun Tzu in the Art of War recommends patience. He wrote, "If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by." He was not a proponent of "doing something" is always better. Perhaps you should pick it up and read it sometime. It contains an immense volume of wisdom, not just knowledge.

  8. #98
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Wow, I agree with him LOL.
    I've been seeing a lot of this lately, so perhaps some of you can finally take me out of the curmudgeon doghouse.

  9. #99
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I've been seeing a lot of this lately, so perhaps some of you can finally take me out of the curmudgeon doghouse.
    While I disagree with you on this subject, you have been making more sense lately. Your still a curmudgeon LOL....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  10. #100
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    While I disagree with you on this subject, you have been making more sense lately. Your still a curmudgeon LOL....
    Shrink changed my meds.

  11. #101
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    If you endeavor to grab your weapon to use on someone who has one trained on you, you have already lost the gunfight.
    I know. But if you manage to distract them, you have the upper hand. You have to remember, they don't expect you to be armed. But yes, it does depend on the situation and there is no right answer. As posted before, I would gladly give up my wallet to anyone who is armed and asks for it. They will get about $5 from it... but if you do feel that person is going to kill or injure you regardless, there are measures you can take is all I'm saying. Just as long as no one is under the impression that if you give them what they want, no harm will come to you, because I have seen many circumstances where that is very far from the truth.

    That's one book I haven't read. I'll have to look for it, thanks.
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

  12. #102
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    The problem I have with threads like this is that some folks have a cavalier approach to it. Some make it sound like it is something that is doable (and it is very doable). But very few people really train realistically for CC to begin with. And out of that small group a smaller number is actually proficient at winning a battle if someone has the drop on you. That is not meant as an insult but a reality. Even folks that have attended "advanced courses" lose skills very quickly unless practiced continuously.

    The reality is the bag guy has the advantage. If you do not train for scenarios constantly you will most likely lose. Not all BG's are idiots with no skills. I have said this before that folks need to keep up on the local news and see if there is a string off armed robberies and see how they worked out. Were the folks left a lone, were they roughed up. This all adds up to what will be a quick decision on your part. If you are with a loved one you need to factor that in. Throw away the macho bovine feces and remember that if you get the BG and he misses you he may still hit your loved ones or friends. Some folks say that they have talked about these things with their wives and kids and to do x whey they say y. But you are betting that all of you react as a team......just my thoughts
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  13. #103
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burns View Post


    :headdesk:
    Then I guess you didnt understand it altho I spelled it out in the part you conveniently cut out.

    If you want to take the risk assuming these guys are all stupid....be my guest.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #104
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    The problem I have with threads like this is that some folks have a cavalier approach to it. Some make it sound like it is something that is doable (and it is very doable). But very few people really train realistically for CC to begin with. And out of that small group a smaller number is actually proficient at winning a battle if someone has the drop on you. That is not meant as an insult but a reality. Even folks that have attended "advanced courses" lose skills very quickly unless practiced continuously.

    The reality is the bag guy has the advantage. If you do not train for scenarios constantly you will most likely lose. Not all BG's are idiots with no skills. I have said this before that folks need to keep up on the local news and see if there is a string off armed robberies and see how they worked out. Were the folks left a lone, were they roughed up. This all adds up to what will be a quick decision on your part. If you are with a loved one you need to factor that in. Throw away the macho bovine feces and remember that if you get the BG and he misses you he may still hit your loved ones or friends. Some folks say that they have talked about these things with their wives and kids and to do x whey they say y. But you are betting that all of you react as a team......just my thoughts
    Amen brother

    I think most here really hate to ever think that some skell has the advantage over them. testosterone can also get you killed.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #105
    Ex Member Array MNgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJK View Post
    Drawing on someone who has a weapon pointed at you is a losing proposition.
    While I happily spread my wealth around, I cordially disagree with this statement.

    I most probably have hundreds of thousands of rounds advantage on the mugger, not to mention God knows how many draws (most in competitions adrenaline running) over the decades. I practice regularly and shoot regularly mainly getting the hell off the X. I'm pretty sure about my odds of surviving, sans the mugger being the local IDPA champion. Adding Krav Maga (and Systema) to the potential scenario of disarming the perp only better my odds.

    Should I have my wife with me, the mugger would get it in stereo.

    As many posters have stated, SA is the key. Don't go to stupid places, with stupid people to do stupid things. I have no desire to meet and greet a mugger.

    I will happily give my few dollars for the benefit of the community, but I intensely dislike someone pointing a gun to my face - always have and always will.

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