Would you draw on a gun?
I was mugged. It was the reason I started carrying. There were three guys, one of them had a gun. In the end i was ok but Ive always wondered how things might have gone if my wife had been with me. I would have put up a real good fight and might have won, I love my wife with all my heart but my odds would have been awfull. I carry so my odds will never be that bad again.
But lets say that happens to me or any of us, tomorrow. Lets say an armed mugger slimes passed our situational awareness and one of us finds ourself starring down the barrel of a bad guys gun...
Have you given thought to drawing on a loaded gun? I'll bet you have. Most people who carry do. So lets say a bad guy gets the drop on you some night while youre getting out of your car or taking a walk. You have your gun, but its concealed and HE already has his gun leveled at your chest. What would you do. Drawing on a gun is forbiden by some schools of thought. All he wants is your money and people survive muggings all the time, I did. But the bad guy is in control and you're at his mercy.
What would you do?
Ive given this a lot of thought and my mind is made up. Id like to hear what you folks have to say before I share my opinion on this matter. Thanks for taking the time to read my post and please share your thoughts.
If I felt that I was gonna be shot whether I reacted or not,or to save a loved one I would.I'm disabled so my defensive options are somewhat limited,but the key is to have a plan and when you are ready "explode" into action,if he ain't expecting it hopefully it will put him behind the curve and you can get good hits before he is able to return fire,or his shot misses.
If my wife is with me by drawing the BG's attention to me she will be able to draw and engage any threats still present.Even If I get shot,most gunshots are not fatal so the odds are I will survive if shot,and since I have limited feeling below arm pit level I may never feel more than the impact from the shot if I'm hit
Unfortunately there is no one right answer. To many variables to your scenario. I guess it comes down to each of us would have to quickly and calmly assess that situation at that time and hope we make the right decision.
When asked for your wallet one train of thought is to throw your wallet off to your weak side so the low life, hopefully, goes for it. Then drop, drawing and fire. Again call has to be made at each encounter as to what action to take.
Drawing on someone who has a weapon pointed at you is a losing proposition. It's not like TV where the good guy always wins; you are simply not fast enough to get off a round before he can.
That said I will not trust my survival to the good will of a miscreant. One option (and there others) is to create a diversion then stop the attack by employing your weapon. For example, start crying as though in fear, cower down and throw your wallet to the ground on his strong side. Then while he's reaching down with his weak hand step to his weak side, draw and fire.
There are no gurantees of survival and sometimes bad things happen to good people but at least you have taken a step to improve your odds.
given the scenario you just went through, its helpful to know that the vast majority of armed robbers out there are looking for the "get in, get out" aspect of hoding people up. they want very little resistance in short. Im in the same boat as you. I got mugged and the snot kicked out of me on my birthday, decided very shortly afterwords it wouldnt happen again. Three versus one are bad odds enough as it is, which is why you may have to get creative use alternate means of neutralizing the threat.
1. carry a fake wallet, throw it over the BG's shoulder and when his back is turned...draw.
2. grab the smallest of the 3 use him as a shield against the gunman.
or (and probably the best of 'em all)
3. Run like hell, put some distance on them. it would be your choice whether you want to stop, pull out and engage from there but it would be best to find safety.
It would be tough for a prosecutor to argue against such a disparity in force if you ended up killing one of them, but it will also be tough on your family as well to hear that you died trying to be a hero. Im not saying curl up in a fetal position and take it like a little Sally, but that chunk of metal on your hip isnt the end-all be-all solution to every encounter. Id focus more on being smart and not acting like a soft target. Works for every one else here.
This situation is what we call, "drawing against the drop." Some thoughts on that:
1. Turn it around. Let's say you are the one who drew first. You spotted the threat, drew on the bad guy, you've got a bead on him. Now, he makes a move for his gun - he's drawing against your drop. How good will his odds be? Think he'll win?
2. We know from the many published accounts of such things that there is a percentage of cases in which the bad guy is actually presenting a toy gun. Sometimes the gun in question is unloaded. Sometimes the bad guy's gun FTFs. If you do draw, you have something like a 20-percent chance that his weapon won't fire.
3. Why are you even thinking about drawing against the drop? If you've done any kind of training where you are timed for your draw, you know it takes around 1 to 2 seconds to get your weapon into play. Really fast shooters can get under that, but that's in arranged scenarios. In real life, under pressure, with whatever garment and holster arrangement you have, figure 1 to 2 seconds (or more). You should be thinking about slapping the bad guy's gun away and fighting him hand-to-hand. You can do that in well under 1 second.
If my SA failed me, and if my wife and I found ourself in that situation options are very few indeed. I rely on a cane when in public due to arthritis bone spurs in the neck tapping the spinal cord, being numb from the knee down on the left side. I guess I would have to 1. given in to the demands or 2. use my cane if the opprotunity was available. I'd have more luck driving the cane into his eye and trying to knock his gun away than trying to get a good draw.. I've discussed this with my wife, I've instructed her to retreat to safety. I do practice twirling and using the cane as a weapon in the garage and by no means am I an expert!! I fall 95% of the time. I would like to think it would be enough for my wife to escape.
If you are going to draw on a drawn gun you must think move first, then draw once you have started to move. (For me that is called GOTX "Getting Off The X") Not getting hit should be the first thing on your mind, then get first good solid hit.
If you are in arms length of the BG defledting his gun and removing it from the immediate fight situation could be another way to go.
If you stand in one spot and try to out draw an already drawn gun you will lose. You have to do something to change his OODA loop first, make him react to your action not your reacting to his.
I would recommend getting some training from a experienced instructor, then practice what you've learned.
So to answer your question "Would you draw on a gun?" My answer is YES. And I would expect to win the fight. Yes there is the chance I would take a hit but the BG will not be going to jail, there will be no need to lock him up.
As with many of these scenarios there is no one right answer. Every case is unique, every individual is unique. You have to gauge your skillset against the setting. Can you initiate a distraction, allowing you extra time to draw and get on target? Do you have room to maneuver out of the line of fire? Are you alone or do you have to worry about protecting loved ones around you as well? The best we can do is train for as many scenarios as we can think of, and hope that they never happen.
This is always a personal decision regardless how well you are trained. When the BG has this advantage you can't assume his capabilities are less than yours. As for the gentleman that said he is willing to take a bullet I submit that if the BG is getting rounds off he might also be hitting his wife. Statistically the BG just wants to get out of there. Get training, keep up on the local news to see if there is a string of robberies and there outcomes.
I think, more often than not, the BG really, truly only wants your wallet. I have a close friend who is a police officer, and after discussing this with him, I think the solution that will increase your odds of walking away uninjured the most is to drop your wallet in front of the BG and walk away. Muggers are generally not hardened criminals or murderers, they're just thiefs. Of course, there's no guarantee that this will work, every situation is different. Our best bet is to do our best to be observant of our surroundings, and try not to end up in a situation like you described.
I've had guns pointed at me before...all before I CCW. Everytime I stopped what I was doing, froze, and complied with demands. Whether it was the cops mistaking my bb-gun for a real one when I was 15, or a scum bag robbing me. I dont think my reaction would be any different now that I have my CCW, unless, and I've heard this happen before, the BG started to pat me down. I dont care what you take but you're not getting my gun off me, at that point it's a fight to the death in my mind.
"IF" is a big word. All I can say is SA,SA,SA. If you don't let it happen, you do not have to react to anything. Easier said than done (there is that word "if" again). I think enough replies indicate that this is a very dynamic situation with no really right answer. I am 70 and have never, ever,, ever had anything happen approaching anything remotely connected to the use of a firearm. Call it luck--fine. As far as I am concerned, I use SA to the point that I am willing to deprive myself of things if I perceive a potential situation. There is always "what if" but there is always SA---it solves all my problems.
Originally Posted by WD54241
One of my students drew against the drop and won. Perp was using a high pimp hold (gun sideways like he learned on TV) for intimidation. Mindset of student was "This is a dead man." But it's your gunfight, and you may be better served creating a distraction like Wild Bill Hickock. Bill called out "Don't shoot; he's just drunk!" BG turned his head.
Stories (even the true ones) are still unique, and you have to adapt to each situation. A victim of a home invasion used the advantage of surprise that discrete carry lends when BG turned his back while opening up a jewelry box. I suggest a smooth demeanor of compliance if BG seems nervous, until you can create a distraction, knock his gun hand away as you draw, go for a disarm, or H2H.
If BG seems cool and professional, there is a good probability (like to gamble?) that he isn't in firing mode, and you may win against the drop. Lateral movement to his strong side might make him turn in order to shoot or stab, and that takes time. You may be able to "J" up and attack his flank, or if you practice drawing while exploding off the X, you might win the first shot.
One of my students told an armed mugger "No Thanks!" BG just stood there with a puzzled look as our would be victim bolted for cover. The common element to most successful stories is a winning mindset and serious "what if" thinking to guide skill development. Prayer and luck don't hurt either.
I agree with everything you said! I'm always evaluating my SA! perhaps it's due to my disability I find myself in the position of being at a substantial disadvantage, so I've compensated by improving SA.
Originally Posted by kelcarry