~The 21 Foot Rule~

This is a discussion on ~The 21 Foot Rule~ within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; That was a great video. That is why off line movement is critical. I was always training my guys to use empty hand techniques as ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 41
Like Tree44Likes

Thread: ~The 21 Foot Rule~

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Where the deer and the antelope roam
    Posts
    3,000
    That was a great video. That is why off line movement is critical. I was always training my guys to use empty hand techniques as they did not have time to draw and still defend themselves.

    Just watched the second video. That is a great video of a determined attacker and how hard they are to stop. Their intent was nice, but their tactics sucked.
    The_Outlaw and atctimmy like this.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,328
    Danny Inosanto with his bare hands merits a thousand-foot rule.
    Bad Bob, The_Outlaw and JDE101 like this.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  4. #18
    AOK
    AOK is offline
    Member Array AOK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Outlaw View Post
    Same here.
    I went through this same type of training when I was in the military police back in the 90's.
    People need to realize that knives are 'extremely dangerous' weapons and that the majority of bad guys on the street 'will' have some sort of 'blade' on them.
    Unfortunately, many people think that a sidearm bests and edged weapon 100% of the time.
    Those folks are sadly mistaken.
    Here is another eye opening video.

    The 21ft rule - fail - YouTube
    Yeap, many people think their side arms are death rays. Unfortunately handguns are terrible man stoppers.

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    charleston, SC
    Posts
    1,865
    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    As a non LEO I don't have a duty to approach bad guys. This is important because I can start to make space between me and a perceived BG before the action starts. Putting a car, gas pump or even a trash can between you and the BG will really help lessen the 21 ft needed to employ your weapon.

    I know from athletics that action always beats reaction. Being first is the key to victory. The problem is knowing when to act. Situational awareness is key, also I like to remind myself that it's easier to avoid a fight than to win one.
    Absolutely liked your/this reply. 21 ft to me does not in any way mean I am standing there waiting for some slime to begin his attack per the video. I will use SA and anything else I can muster to either be farther away or be in a position where I have already positioned my CC at the ready and not still sitting in my holster or pocket or whatever. I CC with one in the chamber and all I have to do is present the firearm, point and shoot. If 21 ft proves, per the video to be too limited then, in my thinking, it makes no sense and I can now establish 28 ft or 35ft as my magic comfort distance. Who decided 21 ft anyway? Is it the law?---No--it is an arbitrary distance determined by study---well guess what? no one studied me.
    Bad Bob likes this.

  6. #20
    Ex Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    963
    Thanks for the videos ,,,,, sounds like a good test.

    The Tueller Drill practice

    The "attacker and shooter are positioned back-to-back. At the signal,
    the attacker sprints away from the shooter, and the shooter unholsters
    his gun and shoots at the target 21 feet (6.4 m) in front of him. The
    attacker stops as soon as the shot is fired. The shooter is successful
    only if his shot is good and if the runner did not cover 21 feet (6.4 m).
    The_Outlaw and Boracho like this.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Where the deer and the antelope roam
    Posts
    3,000
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Absolutely liked your/this reply. 21 ft to me does not in any way mean I am standing there waiting for some slime to begin his attack per the video. I will use SA and anything else I can muster to either be farther away or be in a position where I have already positioned my CC at the ready and not still sitting in my holster or pocket or whatever. I CC with one in the chamber and all I have to do is present the firearm, point and shoot. If 21 ft proves, per the video to be too limited then, in my thinking, it makes no sense and I can now establish 28 ft or 35ft as my magic comfort distance. Who decided 21 ft anyway? Is it the law?---No--it is an arbitrary distance determined by study---well guess what? no one studied me.
    You are right on, 21 feet was an arbitrary number. It has long since been established that it is no near far enough. Truth is, there is no magic distance in a reactive fight. Everyone of us will react differently on any given day. Are we always in condition orange, or are we sometimes distracted by many of the complexities in our lives.

    This in just another factor in the belief that friends don't let friends carry mouse guns.

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    charleston, SC
    Posts
    1,865
    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    This in just another factor in the belief that friends don't let friends carry mouse guns.
    If I do CC, which is not 24/7, I may carry a mouse gun simply because I do not like "stuff" on my body or in my pants; it is still better than a rock and will hurt/damage. When I do CC with a mouse, all these magic 21 ft etal now form a different equation to me. 21 ft becomes the point where I am in a point/shoot frame of mind--that little firearm is already in my hand with one in the chamber. I practice point/shoot at 7 yards and feel confident that I will get someone's attention--may not be between the eyes but will make a difference in my safety.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Where the deer and the antelope roam
    Posts
    3,000
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    If I do CC, which is not 24/7, I may carry a mouse gun simply because I do not like "stuff" on my body or in my pants; it is still better than a rock and will hurt/damage. When I do CC with a mouse, all these magic 21 ft etal now form a different equation to me. 21 ft becomes the point where I am in a point/shoot frame of mind--that little firearm is already in my hand with one in the chamber. I practice point/shoot at 7 yards and feel confident that I will get someone's attention--may not be between the eyes but will make a difference in my safety.
    Absolutely, Anything is better that nothing. I also found that I can conceal a Glock 27 as easily and comfortable as a Keltec PF9. If you are set on a small gun, be very good with it and remember bullets are cheap. Your holster, belt and accessories will dictate how comfortable you carry. I also carry a small gun as a back-up, or may have to arm the wife. But it is a 38 or 9mm. I remember when the smallest you could go without going 25 ACP or 22 LR was a Walther PPK/s or a J frame.

    The point to remember is when an aggressor is attacking, you need to hit them hard enough to make them not want to attack any more (Change his Channel). It is really about pain compliance at that point. You will revert to your training when the elephant is bearing down on you, you will not remember drawing usually, the gun just appears in your hand. The second video shows that even shot multiple times the aggressor still went from person to person attacking. It is really a good teaching tool, imagine you are one of the people being attacked, what gun do you want to have with you?

  10. #24
    Member Array hammer2213's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    dayton, ohio
    Posts
    111
    You can be a bad ass with a gun but if u can't handle yourself in hand to hand combat, or control your fear you are SOL in any bad situation. Iv trained in MMA and boxing for years now so my first reactions might be different than a lot of people who carry a gun. My advise is take some hand to hand classes of some kind. I would recommend jiu jitsu and boxing. Those 2 and my 9mm have made me comfortable no matter what situation I use been in or will be in the future

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,489
    I don't think 21 feet is exactly an "arbritary number". It is my understanding that 21 feet is the distance an "average" man can cover in 1.5 seconds. That was what I was taught back in my CHL class, and in a couple of advanced classes. Also, I was told during a citizens police academy class that our police officers have to be able to draw and fire two accurate shots in 1.5 sconds or under to qualify.

    In my CHL class, they showed a video of a man walking out of a building via the back door into a secluded parking lot. Another man was 21 feet away and was on him in 1.5 seconds. It visually demonstrated the need for SA and just how fast someone can cover 21 feet.
    The_Outlaw likes this.
    Live to ride, ride to live. Harley Road King And keep a .45 handy Kimber Custom TLE II

  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    charleston, SC
    Posts
    1,865
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer2213 View Post
    You can be a bad ass with a gun but if u can't handle yourself in hand to hand combat, or control your fear you are SOL in any bad situation. Iv trained in MMA and boxing for years now so my first reactions might be different than a lot of people who carry a gun. My advise is take some hand to hand classes of some kind. I would recommend jiu jitsu and boxing. Those 2 and my 9mm have made me comfortable no matter what situation I use been in or will be in the future
    I am 70 years old and use SA to its extreme to avoid potential problems. f it means not going somewhere, so be it. I understand what if exists but in 70 years it has never happened to me in any way shape or form. I understand what you are saying but I would rather spend my time avoiding rather than preparing. It has served me well and, I guess, is my way of dealing with the world around me. I do not carry 24/7 but in my house no one better screw with me---I am prepared and will make sure any slime will know it to a certainty.

  13. #27
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,328
    The only thing the 21 foot demo proves to me is that one needs to have much more than just a sidearm in the repertoire.
    JDE101 and The_Outlaw like this.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  14. #28
    Member Array hammer2213's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    dayton, ohio
    Posts
    111
    Very true! I just feel comfortable knowing I have the skills when needed. I live in a very violent city with a very high violent crime rate, that makes it hard for people here to avoid things all the time. I personally have been put in many situations where my training has paid off. I wish it didn't have to be that way but its world I live in.

  15. #29
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,405
    Avoidance > Being there
    The_Outlaw likes this.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  16. #30
    Member Array FAS1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    227
    We ran that drill at my last CHL renewal class. Since pocket carry was becoming so popular we used a Ruger LCP in the front pocket without it being in a holster, just in the front pocket of the instructors Dockers. It wasn't even close. And that was with a gentle attacker that wasn't there to hurt the instructor. Just a guy from the class. I think it was around 15' and we did it several times.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

21 feet criminal minds
,
21 feet rule
,

21 foot rule

,
21 foot rule quote criminal minds
,
21 foot rule texas
,
21 ft rule
,

criminal minds 21 feet

,
ohio 21 feet law
,
ohio law 21 ft
,
the 10 foot rule for criminals
,
the 21 foot rule
,
the 21ft rule
Click on a term to search for related topics.