~The 21 Foot Rule~

This is a discussion on ~The 21 Foot Rule~ within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Thanks for posting the video....

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Thread: ~The 21 Foot Rule~

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting the video.
    The_Outlaw likes this.

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  3. #32
    Member Array The_Outlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    Thanks for posting the video.
    You are very welcome! :)

    I just think that it's really good information for any brother or sister in arms.
    Even if we allready know about the dangers of edged weapons, these videos are a great refresher/reminder.
    This type of information may save a fellow carriers life someday.
    ~The Dude Abides~

  4. #33
    Member Array rick21's Avatar
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    Move, static postions are for target shooting not self defense shooting. Unless you are so close you are shooting from retention you should be moving while you're shooting.
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  5. #34
    Member Array The_Outlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick21 View Post
    Move, static postions are for target shooting not self defense shooting. Unless you are so close you are shooting from retention you should be moving while you're shooting.
    Exactly right on. Never ever stand still. Keep yourself moving as needed.
    ~The Dude Abides~

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array RubenZ's Avatar
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    Hate to bring this topic back up. But how would the scenario change if you had your wife and kids with you? It's a WHOLE different ball game.
    Glock 20sf, Glock 19 gen4, Glock 26 gen3, Colt 1911 Series 80

  7. #36
    Member Array Boracho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet1234 View Post
    Thanks for the videos ,,,,, sounds like a good test.

    The Tueller Drill practice

    The "attacker and shooter are positioned back-to-back. At the signal,
    the attacker sprints away from the shooter, and the shooter unholsters
    his gun and shoots at the target 21 feet (6.4 m) in front of him. The
    attacker stops as soon as the shot is fired. The shooter is successful
    only if his shot is good and if the runner did not cover 21 feet (6.4 m).
    Having seen this in action, you've (and other posters on here, I note) noticed that some people can cover a lot more than 21 feet by the time the shot gets off...

    LEO's at least get to carry open on the belt. Civilians who carry concealed probably to factor even more distance to this equation. Imagine how far the bad guy could cover if you're having to draw from your Smartcarry, ankle rig, belly band, etc. Scary.

  8. #37
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    Array Mike1956's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubenZ View Post
    Hate to bring this topic back up. But how would the scenario change if you had your wife and kids with you? It's a WHOLE different ball game.
    I'm not sure the Tueller Drills genuinely address any real-life scenarios one is likely to encounter.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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  9. #38
    Member Array 1984's Avatar
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    We ran that drill at my last CHL renewal class. Since pocket carry was becoming so popular we used a Ruger LCP in the front pocket without it being in a holster, just in the front pocket of the instructors Dockers. It wasn't even close. And that was with a gentle attacker that wasn't there to hurt the instructor. Just a guy from the class. I think it was around 15' and we did it several times.
    Forgive me but what do you mean here? 15 feet is much faster than 21, but that doesn't sound like what happened.

    I'm not sure the Tueller Drills genuinely address any real-life scenarios one is likely to encounter.
    Indeed- it seems to lose any utility when you know its coming. A second or two is the time it takes to look around your surroundings. If you then see someone running at you, its more like 42 feet.

    I'm not sure a 9mm or mousegun matter in the short run. If my recall of the FBI wounding white paper is correct, if a handgun isn't knocking you on your rear end when you fire it, its not knocking them on their rear end when they receive it. Unless they psychologically decide to.

    And that's basically firing off balance. Someone coming with a head of steam, momentum, there isn't a pistol caliber that is going to knock down or really even slow down an attacker running full speed at you with a knife unless that attacker trips or psychologically just is not into it. There is only a shot, CNS or spinal cord, and in that case any caliber would do. So its definitely going to get mouthwash distance personal with any handgun if the attacker wills it to.

    If I recall the notion from the FBI handgun wounding white paper its something like 10-15 seconds an attacker can function with a fully perforated heart. Minus the 2 seconds taken running at the shooter and even a DOA attacker has 8+ seconds with you and a knife unless you make the kill shot (on a target moving full speed). Miss the kill shot, bounce it off the skull, and they have a lot more.

    Happy to be corrected if I am wrong on any of this. Please! Otherwise I am really talking myself into doing something force on force here...
    Posts are for entertainment only. I have no training, database, background, knowledge of law, skills, or conviction of belief that anything I post is safe or relevant for your situation and bear no responsibility for any actions or events related to your interpretation of any of my post(s).

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array RubenZ's Avatar
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    Maybe we need to practice double tab to the pelvic bone instead of center mass then LOL
    Glock 20sf, Glock 19 gen4, Glock 26 gen3, Colt 1911 Series 80

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubenZ View Post
    Hate to bring this topic back up. But how would the scenario change if you had your wife and kids with you? It's a WHOLE different ball game.
    Actually there is an episode of "The Best Defense" that talks about that scenario. What they recommend is to have a word (in their case it was "cover") that alerts them to flee and find cover. If this word is said it is not questioned or thought about, they just have to react right away (clearly they haven't met my wife )

    In the case of the show it was a man and wife coming out of a shopping place and interrupting another man and wife in a domestic dispute in which the husband had shot his wife and already had his gun drawn. The man hollers cover and the wife runs to a car while the CC'er steps offline and draws his weapon. And while I sometimes make fun of the show, it probably isn't a bad idea to work on a drill like this with your family. Especially because in one of the scenarios the wife freaks out and grabs the husband's arm and he is forced to shoot one handed. Something to research and add to your training.

  12. #41
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    vary your training. the more 'what-ifs' you can play with, the better the chances of interaction--

    in the sense that if/when an event unfolds about you there will be elements in it of things that
    you have practiced for. many here contend that when 'it' happens it will not be as you think it will be.
    perhaps....and perhaps if you have practiced the great many 'what-ifs' and action for you has become
    a series or automatic motions run by your subconcious: that action beats reaction

    rules like 21' would better be thought of as generalizations--sorta, there about certain things
    usually happen in a manner such that one who is on top of the situation will have the likely
    chance to react.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

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