Theoretical Shooting Range Fight

[tactilame]

A few days ago, I was at one of the local shooting ranges having a little fun with my AR-15, and practicing with my FNX-9 and my LC9. It moderately crowded, but not to the point that it made me uncomfortable. There were a few older regulars a couple lanes over to the left, cracking jokes and comparing groups, and there was a woman finishing up a private CCW class with an instructor to the right of me, so I was comfortable.

A little later, the woman and instructor left and two teenagers (probably 18-20) come down the stairs into the range with an AR-15 and a Walther P99. They looked like trouble, not necessarily because of the way they were dressed, but the way they were acting. Being very loud, staring everyone down, holding the gun sideways while shooting as fast as they can without any targets up, etc.

Several minutes later, I went to grab another target (had my targets/extra emmo/case etc. leaning against the back wall). I saw them out of the corner of my eye and heard them make a comment "dude thinks he's swat or something hahahahahahaha" (I assume because I was shooting with my 5.11 vest on and wearing combat boots). I shrugged it off, then walking back to my lane, I noticed they were talking about the P-99, laughing, and waving it all over the place. All over the place as in, sweeping my chest and head and the other shooters several times, and the guy had his finger resting on the trigger.

Now, I know it's a local shooting range, and normally I'll just ignore a little accidental sweeping, but this was just downright blatantly absurd. To make things worse, when they turned back to their lane, they started shooting the pistol. Meaning they sweeped everyone in the range with a hot pistol and their finger on the trigger. I decided to have a word with them. When they finished up their mags, and were reloading, I stepped over to them and politely but firmly said, "Excuse me, please keep the gun pointed downrange, waving it around is making me a little uncomfortable."

Both of them started laughing, and one of them said "Dude chill the (expletive) out, ain't nobody gonna shoot you" and waved it around again. I responded, "Seriously, stop. You're going to end up shooting one of us or yourself." The guy says "Whatever dude, (expletive) off! What are you gonna do about it?" Without saying a word, I went back upstairs to the range officer and told him about what had happened. He said he'd take care of it, and I left with a bad taste in my mouth, as normally the people who frequent this range are very safe.

Anyway, this got me to thinking; what would've happened if it had escalated a little further, and he pointed the pistol at me? If some joker did that out on the street, or heck, even out hunting, I would've responded with force. Even if I hadn't, if they had been caught they would've been in serious trouble. So why do people assume such dangerous behavior is okay on the range?

So here is the theoretical scenario: What would you do if, say, you were at the range and in my situation, politely confronted the two, and they pointed their pistol at you in a threatening manner? I think being at the shooting range this throws some very interesting variables into the equation. I can't even begin to imagine how the older gentlemen would've reacted, how the police would've reacted, how the law would apply, and how a prosecutor would react if this situation had turned into a shooting. It seems incredibly, incredibly unlikely that, even if they pointed the pistol at me on purpose, they would've shot me. Don't know about you guys, but I take having a loaded 9mm pistol pointed directly at my chest at point black range VERY, VERY seriously, regardless of where it happens.

And here are cliff notes, as I've been told I'm a little too wordy sometimes

At the shooting ranges, two younger gentleman wave a loaded gun around, sweeping everyone in the range. I confront them about it politely, and they essentially insult me and continue to sweep everyone in the range.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Mike1956]

The first time you were stroked with a loaded firearm, it was arguably accidental. After you mentioned it and it happened again, it was clearly deliberate. At that point, I would have vacated their vicinity (otherwise known as getting off the X) and called 911, and filed an agg menacing charge against the idiot with the gun. I posted this elsewhere, earlier today.

2903.21 Aggravated menacing.
(A) No person shall knowingly cause another to believe that the offender will cause serious physical harm to the person or property of the other person, the other person’s unborn, or a member of the other person’s immediate family.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of aggravated menacing. Except as otherwise provided in this division, aggravated menacing is a misdemeanor of the first degree. If the victim of the offense is an officer or employee of a public children services agency or a private child placing agency and the offense relates to the officer’s or employee’s performance or anticipated performance of official responsibilities or duties, aggravated menacing is a felony of the fifth degree or, if the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to an offense of violence, the victim of that prior offense was an officer or employee of a public children services agency or private child placing agency, and that prior offense related to the officer’s or employee’s performance or anticipated performance of official responsibilities or duties, a felony of the fourth degree.

Effective Date: 04-10-2001

[Okemo]

I'd say it's very bad form on their part. I'd walk away...report it and pray they didn't shoot me in the back. It'd be pretty hard to win a self defense court case when they had guns in their hands at a gun range. Life is full of jag offs....I'd try my best to stay far away from them and let the range officer and owner deal with it.

[azchevy]

Aggravated assault. You warned them. Call the police and tell them two individuals keep pointing their weapon at you in a menacing manner even after you asked them to stop and you are in fear of your life. Watch the fun.

Does it really matter what happens in court? The situation will end the easy way or the hard way after that, and you will not have to be the one initiating the confrontation. Getting witnesses on board to corroborate your story would help immensely..

[Cook74]

Most indoor ranges I know have cameras. If this is the case at this range, I would still call the police and have them view the tape. Their names are registered at the front desk and so should their drivers license information.

I would not hesitate to report them...

Maybe this is not the first time they messed up or maybe they are not allowed to have firearms... in either case, putting on a police report makes it a history and that will come in handy someday when they are caught screwing up...

[mr.stuart]

I would tell the range officer, not the idiots sweeping everyone. They are to stupid for good judgement and reason. It is the responsibility of the range officer or person in charge, and their liability, to maintain order and safety, not mine. I firmly believe in making people do their job when I pay for a product, service or membership.Punks like this give gun owners a bad name.

[SpencerB]

Behavior like that with firearms makes my blood boil, these idiots should not be allowed on public ranges. Why was the range officer upstairs and not down watching the range? You should have a range officer watching the lanes at all times, not upstairs where he/she can't do squat.

[Mike1956]

I would tell the range officer, not the idiots sweeping everyone. They are to stupid for good judgement and reason. It is the responsibility of the range officer or person in charge, and their liability, to maintain order and safety, not mine. I firmly believe in making people do their job when I pay for a product, service or membership.Punks like this give gun owners a bad name.

After a law has been broken, it becomes a job for the police.

[tactilame]

Behavior like that with firearms makes my blood boil, these idiots should not be allowed on public ranges. Why was the range officer upstairs and not down watching the range? You should have a range officer watching the lanes at all times, not upstairs where he/she can't do squat.

The way the range is set up, there are cameras in the range downstairs that feed upstairs for the range officer to watch. They're pretty understaffed at this place, and when I went up he was helping a customer instead of watching the screen.

[RockStrongo]

I agree with just telling the range officer. That is what they are there to do and get paid for. I wouldn't have bothered interacting with them directly since they seemed to be acting like a bunch of douche bags to begin with... I could have guessed you would have gotten the response you did from them. 99% of the people are cool.. the other 1% suck at life.

[buckeye .45]

Well, teenagers can not be in possession of a handgun in Ohio without an adult present, unless I am mis-remembering the law. I do believe there is an exception for LEO's under 21.

I would of called the police. Being on a range does not excuse muzzling somebody.

[slugger6]

I am not into theoreticals, but I wouldn't ever go back to that range if it is that poorly monitored.

[Okemo]

Does it really matter what happens in court?

Not at that moment, but it'll matter a LOT ..... when you're in court.

[tactilame]

I agree with just telling the range officer. That is what they are there to do and get paid for. I wouldn't have bothered interacting with them directly since they seemed to be acting like a bunch of douche bags to begin with... I could have guessed you would have gotten the response you did from them. 99% of the people are cool.. the other 1% suck at life.

I thought about doing that, but the way that I am, I know if someone has an issue with something I'm doing, I'd rather them come to me directly. Of course, in hindsight, I would never do anything like sweep an entire range with a hot pistol. My logic was "yeah, they're idiots, but maybe if I just approach them politely they'll cut it out" -- I was wrong. I don't think I'm going to get the police involved at this point, but if something like this ever happens again, I definitely will. My guess is the range officer probably banned them from the range indefinitely. Even though he was busy with a customer and not watching the screen, he took my concern very seriously.

[Mike1956]

Why would anyone not make a complaint to the police after having a loaded firearm deliberately pointed at them by aggressive individuals?