Wisconsin: Situation questions

Wisconsin: Situation questions

This is a discussion on Wisconsin: Situation questions within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey guys, you all have been very helpful to me (thank you) and I'm wondering your advice in certain situations should they ever arise. I'm ...

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Thread: Wisconsin: Situation questions

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Wisconsin: Situation questions

    Hey guys, you all have been very helpful to me (thank you) and I'm wondering your advice in certain situations should they ever arise.
    I'm currently waiting on my CCW permit (wish me luck :p) but until then I've been carrying MACE and sometimes a 3D maglite when I have to go out at night. Help me out with these hypothetical questions if you can please;

    1. In my city we have quite a few robberys every year. Say I was in a restaurant eating and someone came in waving around a sword/very large knife and demanded money and threatened the customers in the restaurant. Would it be OK to draw your firearm? A lot of the time robberies end with a death whether they give up the money or not, or would it be better to sit back and do nothing and see how it plays out? Should you tell the robber to drop the weapon or tell him to just get out? or resort to using MACE or a ASP baton? What if they had a gun?

    2. If you are about to get jumped at night when you can't see much(I have been jumped in the past in my own backyard while I was unarmed, got a broken nose and eye socket) are you allowed to pull out your firearm? When situations like this happen it's not easy to tell if they have a weapon or not and sometimes is best to not risk it? I would rather use my MACE before I would ever shoot anyone I really don't like hurting people but if they endanger me or my wife I don't think I would have a problem using it. I'm aware of the lawsuits/jailtime among other repercussions so I would never resort to using a gun unless I really had to.

    3. What if someone tries to attack you while they are unarmed? MACE would always come first right? If they managed to fight off the effects of it if they were intoxicated/on pcp or something would you legally be able to take out your firearm and shoot if necessary? The last thing I would want is for someone else to get ahold of it and use it against me so I would not want to get in a fist fight while carrying even though I do have martial arts training.

    I've been wondering the answers to these for a while. Just so you know I would much rather avoid a conflict altogether but we live in a very unpredictable world, I pray that I will NEVER have to use a firearm for protection, and if I would I would give warning before shooting if possible. Most of the time from what I heard the sight of a gun is enough to send most people running the other way (unless they also have one). Any advice would be awesome, I'm a very law abiding citizen and I don't want my good intentions/self defense putting me on the other side of the law...


    THANK YOU!!
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    I'm heading to bed, will check this in the morning, please leave advice if you can, G'night!
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    Just wondering, didn't your instructor cover use of deadly force in your training class? I don't have any advice, so I will yield to the more knowledgeable forum members.
    If you can read this, thank a teacher. Because it's in English, thank a vet

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    I'm using my hunter safety as my "required training". Can do that in Wisconsin. I'm going to be looking into taking a class even tho it's not required but thought I'd get a headstart on it haha.
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    Fair enough. Good luck to you in your search for answers as I'm sure you'll probably get a fair share of varying opinions.
    If you can read this, thank a teacher. Because it's in English, thank a vet

  6. #6
    Member Array thephanatik's Avatar
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    Before giving my opinion and interpretation of Wisconsin law, here's the actual legislation regarding self-defense:

    Wisconsin Legislature: 939.48


    939.48 (1) A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.

    939.22 (14) "Great bodily harm" means bodily injury which creates a substantial risk of death, or which causes serious permanent disfigurement, or which causes a permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ or other serious bodily injury.

    And now my opinion/interpretation:
    #1, a knife is capable of "great bodily harm", you can respond with lethal force (a gun) if you believe it is necessary to prevent great bodily harm. I would recommend against using pepper spray indoors unless its a stream. Cones and fogs will end up spreading throughout the air. Streams are also harder to aim. A baton is also a poor choice against a knife in my opinion. There's more weight to a baton, so its going to take longer to strike with than someone poking you with a knife. If they came in with a sword as in your scenario, using a baton just seems silly.

    #2 If you believe they have a means to inflict great bodily harm and you reasonably believe that you must use force to prevent it, you can.

    #3 Being attacked unarmed typically does NOT fall under great bodily harm. Unless you are 100lbs and the guy is 220 and solid muscle, or an MMA fighter, or there's 10 of them, I wouldn't be shooting in self defense. This is where pepper spray comes in useful. If the person is jacked up on PCP and isn't going to stop until you are pulverized, in my opinion, you could use lethal force to prevent great bodily harm.


    You could also just move to the wonderful city of Neenah, where there's almost no crime, but maybe I'm just a little biased by living there
    Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation. - Rule #23 in the USMC rules for gunfighting.

  7. #7
    New Member Array stig15's Avatar
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    Honestly, keep up on the laws of your own state(which should answer most of you questions) and read this forum often so you can keep up on scenarios and then apply them to you own state laws. This forum is a knowledge of information and scenarios. As you will learn SA is one of the most important aspects to carrying. With good SA you should be able to avoid 99.9% of conflicts.

  8. #8
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    Before you ask...

    SA = Situational Awareness. Being aware of your surroundings and able to see and anticipate trouble on the horizon or in your immediate vicinity.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Unfortunately when it comes to the situations you put forth these are decisions one can only make for themselves. In most self defense situations (or possible) there are no set patterns of how it is going to play out. Also one will, in all likelihood, have to assess and make decisions on how to deal with the situation in an extremely short period of time.

    The law states (in part) the following:
    "The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference."

    The best way to look at this is would a jury reasonably believe using a weapon was necessary since that is where one might end up.

    After a Real Shooting - Guns & Ammo

    The upside for CC permit holders is the overwhelming majority of us will never be in a position to draw and/or use our weapons in such situations. Many regular law enforcement officers seldom, if ever, draw or use their weapons. However we all still need to know and understand the do's and don'ts of the laws. As the saying goes you have a better chance of winning the lottery.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array sid1's Avatar
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    I agree with Crowman. You can never tell how a stituation will playout. And your time to think about your actions will be seconds to react, (if that). I had similar scenarios played out in my head and what I would do. I would never want to shoot anyone, but if it came down to it I will protect myself with my gun as a last resort. And I am hoping by thinking about these scenarios will help my reactions if any said scenarios would ever cross my path. I think it's normal hearing all the crime going on and mentally putting yourself in the victims shoes and wonder how you would react to that situation.
    For me if I had to use deadly force I believe it would change my life, mentally, and just knowing this is something I am prepared to deal with if it ever came down to it. (I'm am hoping this will never happen)

  11. #11
    Member Array Sturmruger's Avatar
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    The tough thing is your don't know when a robbery is going to turn into a murder. A guy with a knife robbing a restaurant will probably get a pass as long as he keeps his distance and doesn't force anyone down on the floor.

    The other situations where I need to defend myself or the life of a loved one would probably involve me drawing my gun. Just seeing a gun will often times deter the criminals. You can also use some loud commands. "I HAVE A GUN STOP". They key to brandishing your gun is to only do it if you are in fear of your life. Also make sure you are the first one to call 911 and explain what happened.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Thank you for all of the replies. I'll keep all that in mind.

    Both of my MACE IS the stream kind, I've practice with it and am aware to pay attention to the wind if I'm outdoors, you're 100% right tho.
    As far as a knife and baton, If for some reason I couldn't use my firearm a baton would be my next choice. I would much rather use a 21' ASP than a knife. All it takes are a few hits to the hand/leg/knee/elbow/arm and they will go down, one good hit to the hand/arm and they would have to drop the knife. I've hit myself very lightly with it before and let me tell you, that thing HURTS!! Also, many criminals that carry knives have no training with them whatsoever. But in any situation, I would rather avoid it altogether than risk taking any action (as a civilian). Thank you a lot for the replies.

    Also, Neenah is a pretty nice city, I know a Deputy that lives there but my wife has a very good job here in Oshkosh. Then again, unemployment in Oshkosh is way higher than any other city in Wisconsin I believe, not to mention we got a prison where people are constantly being let out of early because it's filled up most of the time... You guys give me so much to think about on this forum haha. Thanks again.
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array sid1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burns View Post
    Thank you for all of the replies. I'll keep all that in mind.

    Both of my MACE IS the stream kind, I've practice with it and am aware to pay attention to the wind if I'm outdoors, you're 100% right tho.
    As far as a knife and baton, If for some reason I couldn't use my firearm a baton would be my next choice. I would much rather use a 21' ASP than a knife. All it takes are a few hits to the hand/leg/knee/elbow/arm and they will go down, one good hit to the hand/arm and they would have to drop the knife. I've hit myself very lightly with it before and let me tell you, that thing HURTS!! Also, many criminals that carry knives have no training with them whatsoever. But in any situation, I would rather avoid it altogether than risk taking any action (as a civilian). Thank you a lot for the replies.

    Also, Neenah is a pretty nice city, I know a Deputy that lives there but my wife has a very good job here in Oshkosh. Then again, unemployment in Oshkosh is way higher than any other city in Wisconsin I believe, not to mention we got a prison where people are constantly being let out of early because it's filled up most of the time... You guys give me so much to think about on this forum haha. Thanks again.
    Thats funny you say that! I live in Milwaukee and I worked in Oshkosh for a summer and thought it was a real nice town compared to Milwaukee.
    I made a lot great friends and travel to Oshkosh every couple of weeks to hangout with my oshkosh buddies.

  14. #14
    Member Array diesel44's Avatar
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    I strongly suggest that before you carry a firearm for defense, you research the state laws that cover these situations AND take a course in CCW and self defense. Get information from some knowledgable people

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel44 View Post
    I strongly suggest that before you carry a firearm for defense, you research the state laws that cover these situations AND take a course in CCW and self defense. Get information from some knowledgable people
    I already said I was going to.
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

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