Approached by two individuals. - Page 4

Approached by two individuals.

This is a discussion on Approached by two individuals. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; as soon as I felt something was up I would make a very obvious move, turn left or right, cross the street immediatley & see ...

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  1. #46
    Member Array Nimitz's Avatar
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    as soon as I felt something was up I would make a very obvious move, turn left or right, cross the street immediatley & see what they did. If they continued to approach me my hand would be on my CCW & I'd tell them to not get any closer ...


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    After you some up the degree of threat if one is perceived............then it's up to the individual to make a choice.....risk being assaulted and letting him close on you or risk handling your weapon in a concealed fashion.............I'll take the latter every time.

  3. #48
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    suntzu: I understand your point completely. However, in the scenario answer posed by Nimitz, where a potential threat is perceived--so he significantly alters course and the two guys alter their course/direction as well, to remain on an intercept course. What would you recommend as a next COA as they are closing the distance and there appears that there could be a significant potential for disparity of force (two on one and possible significant age difference--not in favor of the single person)?
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

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  4. #49
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    suntzu: I understand your point completely. However, in the scenario answer posed by Nimitz, where a potential threat is perceived--so he significantly alters course and the two guys alter their course/direction as well, to remain on an intercept course. What would you recommend as a next COA as they are closing the distance and there appears that there could be a significant potential for disparity of force (two on one and possible significant age difference--not in favor of the single person)?
    Actully I missed a couple of points in the post. I will delete my non-caffeinated response. I really need to have my coffee first LOL.

  5. #50
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    suntzu: I understand your point completely. However, in the scenario answer posed by Nimitz, where a potential threat is perceived--so he significantly alters course and the two guys alter their course/direction as well, to remain on an intercept course. What would you recommend as a next COA as they are closing the distance and there appears that there could be a significant potential for disparity of force (two on one and possible significant age difference--not in favor of the single person)?
    I am curious if this "disparity of force" concept is anywhere in the legal code. I can't find it in my state statutues as they relate to self-defense. I have the right to lethal self-defense in my home/car based on the newly-enacted Castle Doctrine, and while I am out and about, I need to be faced with imminent death, gave bodily harm, or sexual assault. I have not been able to find anything about numers of assailants or age differential.
    Last edited by MadMac; March 30th, 2012 at 02:57 PM.

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elk Hunter View Post
    First, cross the road to the side they came from, if the follow politly ask them what they are up to. If possible it would be nice to have a car or something we can play ring-around-the-rosie. They follow or split-up to corner you, you know they are up to no good. The idea is to get them to commit before they can touch you. Escalate in steps, hoping you do not have to draw and shot. If announce you have a gun or show them a gun, call 911 and report it. Walking stick and pepper spray are a good idea.
    I understand the point of crossing back to the other side of the street to discern if they are indeed approaching you or just heading to a party down the street behind you, and that having a car to play ring around the rosie with is a help, except that there are two of them so hiding behind the car doesn't work, and by going toward their car you are increasing the numbers against you from two to three.

    I agree, hand on gun if possible and command voice, Stop! I don't want trouble!

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by normAK View Post
    I walk back and forth to work thru a downtown area know for it's high crime rate, sometimes at very odd hours. If an incident similar to yours occurred on my walk I would first be sure my weapon was clear to draw, much as you did. I also make a point to directly address anyone approaching who seems to be possible threat just to let them know I am well aware of them. "Good evening gentlemen..." would do the trick for multiple threats. No sense being rude to someone just because you might have to shoot them.You handled yourself well and made it obvious to those folks that they should go find someone who wasn't prepared to meet force with force. Good job.
    That's sig worthy right there!
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  8. #53
    Member Array aworldexport's Avatar
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    BG's have their world..the world of the night, of dark streets smelling of urine, back alleys around bars,downtown friday night,vomit filled streets,ugly hookers pimps and druggies. I carry for when one of these BG animals comes into my world..The grocery store,Daylight,girl scouts selling cookies in front of walmart,Lowes,Best buy,video and convenience stores,library,parks and bike paths...I know all about their world and i want no part of it so i don't go there..when they slither into my world looking to do me harm they must be prepared to get stepped on cause im not alone in saying, good folks are not going to sit around and allow ourselves to be victims....

  9. #54
    Member Array jrizzleP95's Avatar
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    y even give the BG's a chance to access u?
    GL!
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  10. #55
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    WOW! Great thread...

    I think the OP handled the situation pretty good. I also believe that he was right in his assesment of the danger he was in. All around a good job.

    I also do some night time walking/bike riding. Have not had anything similar happen. But I have to acnowledge that it could. I'll personally use this experience as something of a wake up call. Like Hopyard said we both grew up in a town that had a less than stellar reputation. But nothing happened. Sure there was a crime issue in some places, but they were easily avoided. As I have moved to the freedom, and clean air of Florida I have become somewhat complacent. I live in a gated comunity where the greatest danger if from a racoon who refuse to give me right of way.

    Maybe time to put my cop hat on again, and look at things from a police officers perspective. Someone very descriptively mentioned the world that bad guys live in... well I think thats incorrect. Bad guys like good guys come from every environment around. And those bad guys who would survive by taking what others have honestly earned dont do their stalking in a poor neighborhood. They go where people have something to steal. So much for feeling secure in a nice neighborhood.

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Okayyyyyyyyyy ......... new one on me
    Well it shouldn't be. The "criminal interview" is a well-established concept and if you don't understand it then it's time for you to get up to speed.

    Sometimes, an assailant on the street will approach you and simply attack without warning. That is somewhat rare. More often, the perpetrator(s) will want to assess whether you are a suitable victim. Personally, I don't think they do this because of logic or some bit of lore they pass around amongst themselves. Rather, it's probably just a natural, reflexive thing to do on their part.

    Hey, man, you gotta light?
    Yo, you got a dollar?
    'Scuse me, 'scuse me, I'm lookin' for ___ [name of person, name of street, something unintelligible]
    Whatever it is, they want to get your attention so you see the production of the knife or gun they will use to rob you. They want to ascertain your level of awareness. Maybe you'll look down and start fishing in your pockets. Maybe you'll look frightened and defensive and confirm that you are a ripe, easy target.

    In the victim selection process, for whatever reason, you failed the first test: You do look worthy of being mugged, beaten for sport, etc. The interview is the final step, and it opens a window of about 10 seconds in which things will escalate to a crime. You can still succeed in this timeframe if you present a target that looks too hard.

    Some ways that people manage this include shouting, running, saying something un-victimlike, making strong eye contact, reaching as if for a gun, actually producing a gun or other weapon, and using some kind of body language.

    Hope that clears it up for you.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  12. #57
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    WOW! Great thread...

    I think the OP handled the situation pretty good. I also believe that he was right in his assesment of the danger he was in. All around a good job.

    I also do some night time walking/bike riding. Have not had anything similar happen. But I have to acnowledge that it could. I'll personally use this experience as something of a wake up call. Like Hopyard said we both grew up in a town that had a less than stellar reputation. But nothing happened. Sure there was a crime issue in some places, but they were easily avoided. As I have moved to the freedom, and clean air of Florida I have become somewhat complacent. I live in a gated comunity where the greatest danger if from a racoon who refuse to give me right of way.

    Maybe time to put my cop hat on again, and look at things from a police officers perspective. Someone very descriptively mentioned the world that bad guys live in... well I think thats incorrect. Bad guys like good guys come from every environment around. And those bad guys who would survive by taking what others have honestly earned dont do their stalking in a poor neighborhood. They go where people have something to steal. So much for feeling secure in a nice neighborhood.
    Here's this old canard again. I just want to point out that statistics do not back up this assertion. Nice neighborhoods are nice because of the rareness of crimes - especially burglaries, assaults, and robberies. Primary crimes in "nice" neighborhoods are domestic violence and crimes between individuals who know one another.

    You're using logic. Criminals don't use your logic. They are much more likely to get what they want by jacking the local recreational pharmacist or two-bit pimp in their ratty beighborhood than taking the risk of going to Regal Acres to make a score.

    Do you think people walk their dogs or take a walk down a dark street with their Rolex, diamond tennis bracelet and a couple thou in cash? In fact, most of the wealthy go to gyms and country clubs for exercise. When's the last time you heard a guy assualting/robbing people at your local ritzy Bushwood Country Club? I feel safe in upscale neighborhoods. That doesn't mean I don't practice solid SA, it's just a low threat area.

    Most lowlife muggers/crooks look way out of place in these neighborhoods. If Muffy Sweetwater rolls by in her 750iL and sees an "out of place" person, she'll call the cops and they'll be chatting up Mr Unusual within minutes. Don't believe me? Check out Grosse Pointe just north of downtown Detroit. Roll up Jefferson Avenue and see the hoodlums, 'bangers, and creeps hanging around the street corners or sitting on their cars. Just a mile or so away you cross the border into Grosse Pointe, and it's like a window shade comes down and changes the whole scene. If some ghettomobile rolls across the boundary street, the cops roll up to inquire about their activities.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Here's this old canard again. I just want to point out that statistics do not back up this assertion. Nice neighborhoods are nice because of the rareness of crimes - especially burglaries, assaults, and robberies. Primary crimes in "nice" neighborhoods are domestic violence and crimes between individuals who know one another.

    You're using logic. Criminals don't use your logic. They are much more likely to get what they want by jacking the local recreational pharmacist or two-bit pimp in their ratty beighborhood than taking the risk of going to Regal Acres to make a score.

    Do you think people walk their dogs or take a walk down a dark street with their Rolex, diamond tennis bracelet and a couple thou in cash? In fact, most of the wealthy go to gyms and country clubs for exercise. When's the last time you heard a guy assualting/robbing people at your local ritzy Bushwood Country Club? I feel safe in upscale neighborhoods. That doesn't mean I don't practice solid SA, it's just a low threat area.

    Most lowlife muggers/crooks look way out of place in these neighborhoods. If Muffy Sweetwater rolls by in her 750iL and sees an "out of place" person, she'll call the cops and they'll be chatting up Mr Unusual within minutes. Don't believe me? Check out Grosse Pointe just north of downtown Detroit. Roll up Jefferson Avenue and see the hoodlums, 'bangers, and creeps hanging around the street corners or sitting on their cars. Just a mile or so away you cross the border into Grosse Pointe, and it's like a window shade comes down and changes the whole scene. If some ghettomobile rolls across the boundary street, the cops roll up to inquire about their activities.
    Mad Mac and Spuk are both right. It all depends to some extent on the city, its geography, its economic demographics. Macs Detroit area example is a bit like what I experienced in NYC. In some places you were mostly safe on one side of the block and not on the other. But not every city has that culture. A recent bunch of robberies and burglaries in a fairly nice new area being one example the neighborhood isn't all there is to it.
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  14. #59
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Same with convenience stores and liquor stores. In rich neighborhoods, people pay with credit cards. The till is full of credit receipts - not cash. Poor people, illegal immigrants, pimps, crooks, pawn shops, and drug dealers use cash.

    If someone robs a nice house, where are they going to fence the Renoir or the silver plate? If they walk into a pawn shop with a $45,000 diamond ring, someone is going to snap their photo. If they end up robbing the DA's neighborhood or the well-liked executive from the golf club, the law is going to come down hard to find them. If they jack or kill some other lowlife, they are much more likely to get away with the crime. Violent criminlas mostly prey on down-and-out people around them. Those are the facts.

  15. #60
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    My point was BG's for the most part (not always) will keep to familer ground those places i mentioned. Why i dont go to those places im not out at 1am on a friday night downtown walking dark streets. I carry for those times BG's come into places i do go to. When i first started carrying i thought ok i can go to that shady store where undesirables hang out cause im armed now..but then i quickley rethought that attitude and ask myself why? when i can go a little more down the road to a better store.My point is why put yourself in an obviously precarious place?

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