Weapon, or no weapon....

This is a discussion on Weapon, or no weapon.... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hopyard It is really hard to tell what actually was happening as for example the comment above about the candy aisle. One ...

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Thread: Weapon, or no weapon....

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    It is really hard to tell what actually was happening as for example the comment above about the candy aisle.

    One shout to let go of the kid and one second, is about all the leeway that can be comfortably given in such a situation.
    Yell to the man to stop and the kid to come, and if the kid can't come because s/he is being held, then it is a
    fair assumption a kidnapping is happening; but not necessarily what is happening. And, that is the problem here.

    You've got to make a split second decision based on your kid's demeanor, the "takers" demeanor, countenance, body language,
    appearance; the whole 9 yards. And you have to read it right or you will be tomorrows headline and discussion here on
    DC.
    OODA loop at its finest. I think you understand the point of why I made this post. Normally, I do not like to share things that have happened to me and my family. I thought is was important to point that the gun in your belt, should not come out as the first play all the time. Thanks Hopy
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
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    You're a better man than I am. Glad everything worked out well.

  4. #18
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    I had a hard time visualizing just how it went down but I do get your point. I suppose if I were a 220 lbs man there are a lot of things I would do and one of them might be the willingness to go toe-to-toe.

    It's really hard for me to speculate what I would do if I were not who I am because I have never weighed more than 111 lbs (when not pregnant, that is). Nor have I ever been taller than 5'3".. unless I am wearing heels, but then I sacrifice stability. Either way, I've never been anything but a small female who has been picked up and thrown around by the types of men you describe in your post.

    So would I go toe-to-toe? Probably not.

    But since your situation ended well then it turned out okay and that was all that was necessary for you.

    If I perceived that someone were kidnapping my child I would not hesitate to go to lethal force very quickly if I felt it was necessary. Something I have to consider is that if I get myself involved in a H2H situation and am seriously hurt, what happens to my children? Both of which are generally with me whenever I'm out.

    Of course I would yell, "HEY! LET HIM GO!" If that didn't produce the results I was looking for then I would take after the individual in question. If I had my pepper spray with me (which I almost always do) then I might try that if I can get close enough. But if it all came down to it and a gun was all I had and he was getting away I would use it. I'm not even against a good pistol whipping if it came down to it.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to answer the question I asked, as well as the warm wishes for Tre'. I appreciate that. My premise wasnt designed for a one size fits all scenario. I fully understand getting older, and physical limitations. There will always be, someone that doesnt fit the bill..If I were in the condition you described I probably do the same as you. Do me a favor, if you didnt have the physical limitations you have, would you use your weapon in this scenario. I have a feeling I know the answer. I think it would benefit the board..
    Harryball...In my younger years, I sometimes took a challenge of going toe to toe....But, for many years I've had a very strong conviction on three things that I will NOT accept from anyone...1. Don't question my integrity...I was raised to stand behind my word and if I answered a question or made a statement, then it will be from the heart with no lies intended at any time.... 2. Don't question my Patriotism...Call it hokey, old fashioned, whatever you wish, but keep your comments to yourself...I'm the kinda guy that will ask you to remove your hat during the National Anthem, or to be quiet...I have no use for folks who disrespect our Flag or our country...We may get upset with many things at many times, but it's still the best thing going...If folks don't like it, then leave or work to change what you don't like... 3. Don't mess with my family...The quickest way to draw my wrath is to mess with my family.

    With that being said..I'm sure you know that my response would have been the same, even in perfect physical condition...I do agree that your weapon is not the first choice in many situations and it is not the end all/magic talisman that some try to make it out to be...But..I train to protect myself and MY FAMILY and I would not have hesitated, in YOUR situation posted, to have presented my weapon. I too have planned in advance what my response would be. I've trained in an attempt to insure that my response would be nothing but successful. One WILL NOT lay a hand on my wife, daughter or granddaughter PERIOD!

    Hope I didn't disappoint your expectations in my response..LOL...I think my signature line says a lot about my mindset.. Be SAFE Harryball and take care of the lil fella...
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    Harryball...In my younger years, I sometimes took a challenge of going toe to toe....But, for many years I've had a very strong conviction on three things that I will NOT accept from anyone...1. Don't question my integrity...I was raised to stand behind my word and if I answered a question or made a statement, then it will be from the heart with no lies intended at any time.... 2. Don't question my Patriotism...Call it hokey, old fashioned, whatever you wish, but keep your comments to yourself...I'm the kinda guy that will ask you to remove your hat during the National Anthem, or to be quiet...I have no use for folks who disrespect our Flag or our country...We may get upset with many things at many times, but it's still the best thing going...If folks don't like it, then leave or work to change what you don't like... 3. Don't mess with my family...The quickest way to draw my wrath is to mess with my family.

    With that being said..I'm sure you know that my response would have been the same, even in perfect physical condition...I do agree that your weapon is not the first choice in many situations and it is not the end all/magic talisman that some try to make it out to be...But..I train to protect myself and MY FAMILY and I would not have hesitated, in YOUR situation posted, to have presented my weapon. I too have planned in advance what my response would be. I've trained in an attempt to insure that my response would be nothing but successful. One WILL NOT lay a hand on my wife, daughter or granddaughter PERIOD!

    Hope I didn't disappoint your expectations in my response..LOL...I think my signature line says a lot about my mindset.. Be SAFE Harryball and take care of the lil fella...
    No disappointment here. I fully understand and respect your convictions.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Only you can answer properly as you were there. The answer being, no.

    Good on ya!
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    From another thread, there is a discussion about whether do deploy your weapon or not. I am of the belief that your gun is the last tool in your tool bag you should use. Here is a scenario, that happened to me in a local QD....Link to other thread for reference...Noticing a new trend

    I needed a cup of coffee and my little guy wanted a beef jerky. So we went into the convenience store. There is a DVD rental kiosk in the store, so we went back to the soda isle, I thought I would get a two liter of Diet dew while we were there. Upon entering the store, I noticed an individual that looked strange, even by my standard...

    So we are at the soda isle. The strange looking guy was walking around the store looking around, trying to find something. What he was looking for I have no idea. So I look in the cooler, find my Diet Dew, open the door and the stranger has his hand on Tre's back pushing him toward the front door of the store. This is when I acted. I put my shoulder to the middle of his back, grabbed tre' and told said stranger to back up. He looked at me with distaste. I then pushed him back and yelled, leave my boy alone. At this point all attention was on him. He ran out of the store. Store called the PD.

    Now, my question to all of you is this. Did I need to pull my weapon out and draw this guy down, or did my H2H work to solve this situation? I did what I felt was right for the level of the threat. What say you.....
    Wow HB, I'm glad that you and your little guy came out of this unscathed. All Monday QB-ing aside, when you noticed that this "strange looking guy" was acting squirrelly, did this raise your alert status?

    I realize that "convenience" stores are supposed to be convenient, but I tend to avoid them if at all possible. Will this incident affect your decision to patronize these types of places in the future?
    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Ben Franklin

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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorCityGun View Post
    Wow HB, I'm glad that you and your little guy came out of this unscathed. All Monday QB-ing aside, when you noticed that this "strange looking guy" was acting squirrelly, did this raise your alert status?

    I realize that "convenience" stores are supposed to be convenient, but I tend to avoid them if at all possible. Will this incident affect your decision to patronize these types of places in the future?
    Yea my alert status was raised. I bent over to pick up a two liter and he was on Tre'. Tre' was only 3 feet away looking at the DVDs. I have no problem going into the store that it happened at. I will not allow these types to alert my life. I will say this, I keep an eye on him the entire time now. Here is a pic of him...

    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    Good looking kid. He looks a little younger than 8 yr in this pic, however, he must take after his mother...
    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Ben Franklin

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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Dadsnugun's Avatar
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    Glad he's safe Harryball, I can think of a couple of "innocent" scenarios for this, but as parents, we don't always have the time, nor should we have the inclination to give the "benefit of the doubt". You got your boy back and drew attention to the situation. The guy running off kinda cancels out innocent motivation on his part IMO. Good response, no adult touches my kid without me knowing the reason, and she's nearly an adult herself now...old enough to think she knows it all, too young to realize there's plenty left to learn. Prayers for your continued safety and vigilance.
    Never pick a fight with an old man...If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you - John Steinbeck
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  12. #26
    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Sounds like you handled it a lot better than I would have Harryball.

    If I were in a similar situation and a complete stranger were leading one of my daughters away; I certainly would have "cleared leather".

    Something I'm sure I would end up regretting in the following days/weeks.

    Definately gave me something to think about though.

    Thanx for sharing... Glad all is well.
    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for all the warm thoughts..I appreciate it.

    @motorcitygun..He is about 5 in the pic. we were on our way to a race....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  14. #28
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    From another thread, there is a discussion about whether do deploy your weapon or not. I am of the belief that your gun is the last tool in your tool bag you should use. Here is a scenario, that happened to me in a local QD....Link to other thread for reference...Noticing a new trend

    I needed a cup of coffee and my little guy wanted a beef jerky. So we went into the convenience store. There is a DVD rental kiosk in the store, so we went back to the soda isle, I thought I would get a two liter of Diet dew while we were there. Upon entering the store, I noticed an individual that looked strange, even by my standard...

    So we are at the soda isle. The strange looking guy was walking around the store looking around, trying to find something. What he was looking for I have no idea. So I look in the cooler, find my Diet Dew, open the door and the stranger has his hand on Tre's back pushing him toward the front door of the store. This is when I acted. I put my shoulder to the middle of his back, grabbed tre' and told said stranger to back up. He looked at me with distaste. I then pushed him back and yelled, leave my boy alone. At this point all attention was on him. He ran out of the store. Store called the PD.

    Now, my question to all of you is this. Did I need to pull my weapon out and draw this guy down, or did my H2H work to solve this situation? I did what I felt was right for the level of the threat. What say you.....
    I wouldn't have let him get away to do it to someone elses child.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I wouldn't have let him get away to do it to someone elses child.
    My wife said the same thing. I can only hope that he is caught, before that happens. I can only be responsible for mine.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  16. #30
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    My wife said the same thing. I can only hope that he is caught, before that happens. I can only be responsible for mine.
    You did what you had to do. Your child and you went home safe. I would have put him down so hard, he would have woken up in the back of the bus. Touching a child that is not yours and trying to usher said child to an exit of a store = instant butt kicking in my book.
    MotorCityGun likes this.

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