Vagrant Attempts to Rob F.B.I. Agent

Vagrant Attempts to Rob F.B.I. Agent

This is a discussion on Vagrant Attempts to Rob F.B.I. Agent within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Read an interesting/funny(kinda) article in the Salt Lake Tribune this morning in which a vagrant(does it matter?) attempted to rob a man who turned out ...

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Thread: Vagrant Attempts to Rob F.B.I. Agent

  1. #1
    New Member Array Wilsondude's Avatar
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    Vagrant Attempts to Rob F.B.I. Agent

    Read an interesting/funny(kinda) article in the Salt Lake Tribune this morning in which a vagrant(does it matter?) attempted to rob a man who turned out to be an F.B.I. agent. The vagrant had on a coat, had a hand in his coat pocket and told the man/agent that he had a gun and told him to lay face down on the pavement. Well, it ended poorly for the bad guy, but my question is this: If this same scenario happened to you and the bad guy looked like he had a gun in his coat, would you be justified in shooting him if you believed your life was in iminent danger? My first thought was, "darn right", but then the article said that he didn't actually have a gun(who knows?). I do know that the special agent didn't shoot him, and it just said that he arrested him. I think that perceived threat, and the bulge in the guys coat could have gotten him shot without hesitation if I was involved. What do you think? It sure changes the situation when you can't actually see a real gun pointed at you......


  2. #2
    Member Array beararms's Avatar
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    I think a reasonable person would have to err on the side of assuming the guy really has a gun. Thus, shooting him is self-defense.

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    I see no reason to disbelieve a BG when he tells me he has a gun. After the fact there may be a debate but in the moment you have to assume he does have a gun.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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    New Member Array mp1977's Avatar
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    Self defense does not hinge as much on actual threat as perceived threat.

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsondude View Post
    What do you think? It sure changes the situation when you can't actually see a real gun pointed at you......
    It is no different than if he had a toy gun, he presented himself as a deadly threat and will be dealt with accordingly.
    Guest1 likes this.

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    Member Array Chandne's Avatar
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    If he has the drop on you with a real gun, is it worth it?

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    Comply, or move off the "X" and defend yourself.

    Whether you go ahead and shoot him or not, is up to you.

    Whether you are justified or not, may be an expensive learning experience if they decide to charge you for shooting an unarmed vagrant, but you're going to have to decide for yourself whether or not you are going to shoot him.

    I imagine the FBI agent didn't shoot him because he has a few more tools in his tool box than the average ccw permit holder, (such as a significant amount of hand-to-hand combatives training) and likely several other things.

    I've said, many times before, the less tools you have in your tool box, the more likely you are going to be to use the gun if that's all you carry.

    I don't care what people say about being in "fear of your life" because he "said" he had a gun (but never produced it). The reality and fact is this. They may charge you for shooting him, or... they may not. It really depends on the mood of the court and the DA in that particular jurisdiction.

    Like I said, if they do charge you... You just bought yourself a very expensive learning experience on why it may have been a good idea to have some additional training than just the required stuff needed to obtain a ccw permit.

    JMHO. YMMV.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    As a woman, who am I to argue with a guy who says he has a gun in his pocket?
    Whether he does or not...I take his word for it and lethal force is my answer.
    Intent is the key. He intends to have me helpless (for whatever reason) and I intent to defend myself from someone who has announced he means to do me ill.
    gunthorp, MleeC, Bark'n and 3 others like this.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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    If someone threatens they have a gun it is considered armed robbery and the use of deadly force is justified.
    BugDude likes this.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I'm betting the Agent quickly drew his gun, and the guy only had his finger to work with.....
    Hopyard likes this.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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    Member Array Cattus Vir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
    If he has the drop on you with a real gun, is it worth it?
    My thoughts exactly. If your already 2 seconds behind the "pocket gun" why would you try to get yours? I know this is (I) gonna get blasted but at that point your done

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    You only have to believe it for a second or two...

    Play the part - act fearful and raise your hands. Say you'll give them anything while inching off-center. Tell them you'll give them your wallet while reaching for your holster. Larger steps off-center & shoot from under your raised weak-side arm.

    Of course, this route of action is a must for practice drills.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  13. #13
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    Someone tells me they have a gun, I'm going to believe them.
    Ksthumper likes this.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    you'd be ok unless you're confronted by a black kid prowling a neighborhood in fla, then all bets are off because facts seem to become irrelevant

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Someone tells me they have a gun, I'm going to believe them.
    +1

    That's one statement you better take seriously.
    CRIME..... LAW DEFINES, POLICE ENFORCE, CITIZENS PREVENT!

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