Vagrant Attempts to Rob F.B.I. Agent

[Wilsondude]

Read an interesting/funny(kinda) article in the Salt Lake Tribune this morning in which a vagrant(does it matter?) attempted to rob a man who turned out to be an F.B.I. agent. The vagrant had on a coat, had a hand in his coat pocket and told the man/agent that he had a gun and told him to lay face down on the pavement. Well, it ended poorly for the bad guy, but my question is this: If this same scenario happened to you and the bad guy looked like he had a gun in his coat, would you be justified in shooting him if you believed your life was in iminent danger? My first thought was, "darn right", but then the article said that he didn't actually have a gun(who knows?). I do know that the special agent didn't shoot him, and it just said that he arrested him. I think that perceived threat, and the bulge in the guys coat could have gotten him shot without hesitation if I was involved. What do you think? It sure changes the situation when you can't actually see a real gun pointed at you......

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[beararms]

I think a reasonable person would have to err on the side of assuming the guy really has a gun. Thus, shooting him is self-defense.

[atctimmy]

I see no reason to disbelieve a BG when he tells me he has a gun. After the fact there may be a debate but in the moment you have to assume he does have a gun.

[mp1977]

Self defense does not hinge as much on actual threat as perceived threat.

[smolck]

What do you think? It sure changes the situation when you can't actually see a real gun pointed at you......

It is no different than if he had a toy gun, he presented himself as a deadly threat and will be dealt with accordingly.

[Chandne]

If he has the drop on you with a real gun, is it worth it?

[Bark'n]

Comply, or move off the "X" and defend yourself.

Whether you go ahead and shoot him or not, is up to you.

Whether you are justified or not, may be an expensive learning experience if they decide to charge you for shooting an unarmed vagrant, but you're going to have to decide for yourself whether or not you are going to shoot him.

I imagine the FBI agent didn't shoot him because he has a few more tools in his tool box than the average ccw permit holder, (such as a significant amount of hand-to-hand combatives training) and likely several other things.

I've said, many times before, the less tools you have in your tool box, the more likely you are going to be to use the gun if that's all you carry.

I don't care what people say about being in "fear of your life" because he "said" he had a gun (but never produced it). The reality and fact is this. They may charge you for shooting him, or... they may not. It really depends on the mood of the court and the DA in that particular jurisdiction.

Like I said, if they do charge you... You just bought yourself a very expensive learning experience on why it may have been a good idea to have some additional training than just the required stuff needed to obtain a ccw permit.

JMHO. YMMV.

[Spirit51]

As a woman, who am I to argue with a guy who says he has a gun in his pocket?
Whether he does or not...I take his word for it and lethal force is my answer.
Intent is the key. He intends to have me helpless (for whatever reason) and I intent to defend myself from someone who has announced he means to do me ill.

[msgt/ret]

If someone threatens they have a gun it is considered armed robbery and the use of deadly force is justified.

[Eagleks]

I'm betting the Agent quickly drew his gun, and the guy only had his finger to work with.....

[Cattus Vir]

If he has the drop on you with a real gun, is it worth it?

My thoughts exactly. If your already 2 seconds behind the "pocket gun" why would you try to get yours? I know this is (I) gonna get blasted but at that point your done

[ArkhmAsylm]

-
You only have to believe it for a second or two...

Play the part - act fearful and raise your hands. Say you'll give them anything while inching off-center. Tell them you'll give them your wallet while reaching for your holster. Larger steps off-center & shoot from under your raised weak-side arm.

Of course, this route of action is a must for practice drills.

[archer51]

Someone tells me they have a gun, I'm going to believe them.

[apvbguy]

you'd be ok unless you're confronted by a black kid prowling a neighborhood in fla, then all bets are off because facts seem to become irrelevant

[joleary223]

Someone tells me they have a gun, I'm going to believe them.

+1

That's one statement you better take seriously.