Your loved one instigates a confrontation, now they're under attack! Legal question.

This is a discussion on Your loved one instigates a confrontation, now they're under attack! Legal question. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Mike1956 I would suggest having a chat with your wife about her mouth writing checks you are going to have to cash. ...

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 60
Like Tree53Likes

Thread: Your loved one instigates a confrontation, now they're under attack! Legal question.

  1. #16
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,502
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I would suggest having a chat with your wife about her mouth writing checks you are going to have to cash.
    HOoooo... That's funny! I'll go ahead and mention that she needs to be more submissive too, and that I need dinner on the table when I get home.

    Hang around women much?
    BkCo1 likes this.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,431
    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    HOoooo... That's funny! I'll go ahead and mention that she needs to be more submissive too, and that I need dinner on the table when I get home.

    Hang around women much?
    Just the one I have happily coexisted with for the last sixteen years.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
    Posts
    606
    From what I understand, in Virginia I would be justified in shooting the person advancing toward a loved one with a deadly weapon. In this scenario, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger regardless of the law.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

  5. #19
    Member Array Miketrance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    203
    First off, my wife is a kind hearted person and would be the last one to open her mouth, even when she should. We've had this discussion many times, and she knows if something needs to be said to someone I will say it. As someone else puts it, her mouth doesn't write checks that I have to cash. I wouldn't tolerate having to back up a loud mouthed woman.

    Secondly, why did your wife feel she had the right to tell someone their music was offensive. Obviously since this is a concealed carry forum, most people on here are proponents of the amendment rights we were all granted by our forefathers. You can't pick and choose who gets the rights afforded by the constitution and when someone's free speech bothers you complain about it. I would have told your wife to pound sand. If the music was loud enough to violate noise ordinance, call the cops and let them do their job. You wife isn't a police officer and has no right to enforce the law.

    Some people aren't offended by language. That's what makes this country so great, we can have a difference of opinion and still have the same rights. If you disagree with certain words being used, don't use them and leave when they bother you in a public place. Your wife must be living in a dream world to think your kids will never hear that kind of language. It's your job as a parent to raise your kids in the manner you deem most appropriate but, not your job to police the world.

    I'm sure you would feel great about having to kill a kid listening to loud music because your own wife couldn't keep her mouth closed. Courtesy goes both ways IMO.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,071
    Oklahoma has laws against profanity in public, so the wife would have been justified here in asking them to turn it down. Mike, you're doing a real good job of stirring up trouble in your debut here.
    My blog

    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.

  7. #21
    Member Array Miketrance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    Oklahoma has laws against profanity in public, so the wife would have been justified here in asking them to turn it down. Mike, you're doing a real good job of stirring up trouble in your debut here.
    Is his wife a police officer? If not, she isn't justified to enforce that law. My intention isn't to cause trouble but, consider that situation did go south and the OP shot the guy. When it boils down to it, that whole situation could have been avoided by the wife keeping her horn closed. Someone is dead because someone else believes they can play neighborhood police. If she feels she needs to enforce the laws, then she needs to carry a badge.

    We all need to be a bit more tolerant of others. Is someone playing loud music in a public place annoying, and possible offensive to others, sure. Is it reason to start a confrontation over, no. If it was that offensive it should have been reported to the authorities, not taken into your own hands. Now, if you are 100% confident that you can approach the situation in a calm and respectful manner, go ahead and say something, but be POLITE. I don't mean to bother you sir but could you please turn the music down, it's bothering my children. Something like that isn't going to prompt anyone to come out with a knife. If the guy tells her to go (you know what), then she can walk away and call the police with a clear conscience.

    Living in a social setting, you're bound to run into someone that offends you in some way. You should do your best to let it roll off your back first. I doubt they were listening to that music with the intention of upsetting her. Then if you cannot, ask politely for the to stop. If they do not, and it's illegal, get the authorities involved. One rude action doesn't prompt another, and judging by the OP's description his wife wasn't as polite about it as she could have been.

    There's no reason to speak rudely to ANYONE. This thread touches a soft spot with me, and again i'm not trying to start trouble. Two wrongs don't make a right, and we're all dealing with life and death consequences. I doubt the OP wants to look the kids mother in the eye and tell her that her son is dead because of a few curse words.
    Pistology likes this.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,147
    Quote Originally Posted by Miketrance View Post
    Is his wife a police officer? If not, she isn't justified to enforce that law. My intention isn't to cause trouble but, consider that situation did go south and the OP shot the guy. When it boils down to it, that whole situation could have been avoided by the wife keeping her horn closed. Someone is dead because someone else believes they can play neighborhood police. If she feels she needs to enforce the laws, then she needs to carry a badge.

    We all need to be a bit more tolerant of others. Is someone playing loud music in a public place annoying, and possible offensive to others, sure. Is it reason to start a confrontation over, no. If it was that offensive it should have been reported to the authorities, not taken into your own hands. Now, if you are 100% confident that you can approach the situation in a calm and respectful manner, go ahead and say something, but be POLITE. I don't mean to bother you sir but could you please turn the music down, it's bothering my children. Something like that isn't going to prompt anyone to come out with a knife. If the guy tells her to go (you know what), then she can walk away and call the police with a clear conscience.

    Living in a social setting, you're bound to run into someone that offends you in some way. You should do your best to let it roll off your back first. I doubt they were listening to that music with the intention of upsetting her. Then if you cannot, ask politely for the to stop. If they do not, and it's illegal, get the authorities involved. One rude action doesn't prompt another, and judging by the OP's description his wife wasn't as polite about it as she could have been.

    There's no reason to speak rudely to ANYONE. This thread touches a soft spot with me, and again i'm not trying to start trouble. Two wrongs don't make a right, and we're all dealing with life and death consequences. I doubt the OP wants to look the kids mother in the eye and tell her that her son is dead because of a few curse words.
    Im not sure what society you are from, but if I cannot ask someone to stop, why even try to raise the kids right. Your utopia may work for you, but us folks in the real world have different ideas.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
    Posts
    606
    Quote Originally Posted by Miketrance View Post
    Someone is dead because someone else believes they can play neighborhood police.
    I get what you are saying, but someone would not be dead because someone else believes they can play neighborhood police. They would be dead because of a knife wielding man threatened or attacked the wife. Pulling a knife is not a rational thing to do when someone says something you don't like. I agree that how the wife approaches the stranger and how she speaks to him could make a world of difference but even cursing the guy is not justification for him to use a knife.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Wetumpka, AL
    Posts
    994
    Carrying has actually made us think more before my wife or I open our mouths. It makes sure we take the polite course because we realize that being armed doesn't give you a reason to be a butt-head and that intentionally causing a confrontation while armed can lead to a bad consequence. Thus, if we're polite and the other party becomes stupid, things favor us - not them...
    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason

  11. #25
    Member Array W9HDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wausau, WI
    Posts
    228
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Im not sure what society you are from, but if I cannot ask someone to stop, why even try to raise the kids right. Your utopia may work for you, but us folks in the real world have different ideas.....
    He's from Milwaukee, they're "special" there and have their own ideas of what is and isn't right. Their ideas are part of the reason is as messed up as it is these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesafreak;
    I agree that how the wife approaches the stranger and how she speaks to him could make a world of difference but even cursing the guy is not justification for him to use a knife.
    While I agree the person approaching the other should be polite, wouldn't it also be polite to realize and understand that the music you're listening to at deafening levels could be offensive to others and keep the volume turned down.

    Seriously, if you offend me, I'll say something and depending on how much you offend me, I may not be to nice about it. Polite yes, Nice no. I'm not afraid to show someone where the bear shits in the woods and make sure that they are the one that steps in it.

  12. #26
    Member Array Miketrance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
    I get what you are saying, but someone would not be dead because someone else believes they can play neighborhood police. They would be dead because of a knife wielding man threatened or attacked the wife. Pulling a knife is not a rational thing to do when someone says something you don't like. I agree that how the wife approaches the stranger and how she speaks to him could make a world of difference but even cursing the guy is not justification for him to use a knife.
    I completely agree with you. We don't know exactly how the argument would progress though. It could start with a few strong words, then he replies in kind. Before you know it, she shoves him or strikes his car or something and bam he has a knife. Or the guy is just crazy, but it still all started with her mouth. People can be crazy, unpredictable creatures which is exactly why we're all here. Opening up your mouth unnecessarily is just the first step on a tall ladder that leads to the shooting. We all CC to protect ourselves from bad guys, which is great, we should also make sure we stay under their radar as much as possible first.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
    Posts
    606
    My ex-wife did the same thing to me twice before I started carrying. On one of those occasions, we had to get off the interstate for gas. We got turned around from having to navigate one-way streets and ended up in a vewy vewy bad place. We were at a stop sign and some of the natives on the sidewalk started talking trash and my wife just had to roll down the window and yell at him. Next thing I know, I'm the only guy in a car full of women, and the locals are surrounding our car. I drove away with people trying to jump on the car. She was a country girl from TN with a trash mouth and no filter.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array TheShadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stuck In The 1970's
    Posts
    915
    It would be up to a jury in my state of SC

    "South Carolina also has the “alter-ego” rule with respect to the defense of others, under which a person who uses deadly force to defend a friend, relative or bystander will be allowed the benefit of the plea of self-defense if that plea would have been available to the person requiring assistance if they had been the one who used deadly force. In other words, the person intervening is deemed to “stand in the shoes” of the person on whose behalf he is intervening. If that individual “had the right to defend himself, then the intervening party is also protected by that right. To claim self defense, a person has to be in a place they have a legal right to be, not be involved in any illegal activity, must not have started the confrontation, and must be in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm."
    “Put your pain in a box. Lock it down. No man is stronger than one who can harness his emotions.” -Act of Valor

  15. #29
    Member Array Miketrance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by W9HDG View Post
    He's from Milwaukee, they're "special" there and have their own ideas of what is and isn't right. Their ideas are part of the reason is as messed up as it is these days.



    While I agree the person approaching the other should be polite, wouldn't it also be polite to realize and understand that the music you're listening to at deafening levels could be offensive to others and keep the volume turned down.

    Seriously, if you offend me, I'll say something and depending on how much you offend me, I may not be to nice about it. Polite yes, Nice no. I'm not afraid to show someone where the bear shits and the woods and make sure that they are the one that steps in it.
    Yes I have no doubt you're a real tough guy. Try that with the wrong person, and you'll be dodging bullets. Yes, I am from Milwaukee where running your mouth to the wrong person gets you shot. What are you going to do when 4 guys with automatic weapons get out of that car, and they didn't like the way you spoke to them. The reality is, no matter how tough you think you are someone out there is tougher or has more to prove than you do. If you can't be nice while approaching a stranger, you're best served keeping your mouth shut.

    I would like to see you read someone the riot act on 2nd and North at 1am. But you're right I'm "special" because I think you should keep your mouth shut or address people politely. Try to put the bravado away, and take my ideas into consideration with an open mind. Coming from an area where the only crime is a tipped over cow, I doubt you truly realise how much trouble your mouth can get you into.

    No one ever wins a fight, even if you come out on top you still killed someone. You're going to go over that day in your mind over and over for a very long time. You will wonder if I was just a bit more polite, would that guy still be alive? I would need to know that there was truly nothing I could do, if it ever came down to me having to take someone else's life.

  16. #30
    Member Array Miketrance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Im not sure what society you are from, but if I cannot ask someone to stop, why even try to raise the kids right. Your utopia may work for you, but us folks in the real world have different ideas.....
    I said if you were to ask someone to stop, be polite about it. There's nothing wrong with saying excuse me sir could you please turn it down, your music is bothering my children. Getting up in someone's face, and asking them to stop politely are two very different things.
    Pistology and mano3 like this.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

how is the instigator allowed to claim self defense
,
if a person instigates a confrontation can he claim self defense if he kills him
,
instigate self defense
,

instigating confrontation

,
instigator claims self defense
,
is it against the law to instigate a fight
,
rules of self defense not instigating
,
self defense instigation
,
self defense instigator
,
texas law instigating a fight
,
texas law of self-defense provocation escalation
,
wife instigates fight
Click on a term to search for related topics.