This is a discussion on Elevator Nightmare within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Assuming I was unable to prevent the situation by using H2H to keep his mitts off me in the first place!
I would be hitting ...
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September 5th, 2006 07:35 PM
Assuming I was unable to prevent the situation by using H2H to keep his mitts off me in the first place!
I would be hitting him in the eyes & throat, while kicking him in the knees & family jewels. During this time I would be trying to clear my weapon & use it!
Once the BG has gotten a hand on your throat, his intent will be interpreted as HOSTILE! My response would be similar!
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper
September 5th, 2006 07:59 PM
Situation: Ability to damage me/mine; intent, by placing hands violently on me; jeopardy, by virtue of his choking me and preparing to beat me. Frankly, my youth and health are not sufficient to successfully grapple with and repel a sizeable attacker. Not everyone can repel someone via hand-to-hand; and relying on a WAG that he was drunk and incapable of completing a life-threatening attack is folly.
Resolution: If I were in fear for my lilfe, he would be stopped via firearm. Afforded one opportunity to immediately cease and desist, verbally, else he ignores the warning (by that, evoking clear intent to sidestep the defense) and will be taken down. No way am I going to tolerate the death of me/mine in an enclosed space with no retreat possible and no alternatives at hand.
I do take elevators, due to an old injury. My backup is pocket carry and I'm always prepared in such situations to bring it to bear. It's appalling how frequently such apparently aggressive people enter an elevator and begin making noises, puffing up their chests. I have lost count. Were I with my companion(s), we'd exit immediately. Done this, before. Were I alone, I'd be casual in presentation but immediately prepared to mount a defense if needed. Has not yet been actually needed, though twice I watched the "pot begin to boil" as thugs began to get excitable and overtly conscious of the opportunity they had found. Fortunately for all concerned the next floor was a moment away (in each case).
Last edited by ccw9mm; September 5th, 2006 at 08:04 PM.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
September 5th, 2006 08:21 PM
Being way bigger than that of the BG in this situation and most others, this would probably not play out as described by most others here for me. You know the really scarry guy that makes your hair stand on end? That is usually me. I don't intend to do it, I'm just a Big Ugly (bad word). That being said, having been thru the Army's Hand to hand course, I know exactly enough to get my butt kicked 8 ways to Sunday. I am very big and very strong and have used this to my advantage many times. When I run into someone who is bigger than me, (rare though it happens) I most often look like I am searching for someone's cherrio's to pee in... worked so far.
The closness of the sitution really demands hand to hand of some sort, even if it is a delaying tactic to get to your weapon. I tend to over do it when it comes to using muscles and someone would get hurt if I let go of my personal reins on my temper. The thought makes the hair stand up on my neck, to release my inner demon to intentional mayhem, even in saving my own butt or my SO, it gives me great pause. Scared? Yes, sir. Not of loosing, but of winning at someone elses cost. That doesn't mean I will not act when the time comes, but I will definately brood about it for along time to come....
September 5th, 2006 08:26 PM
September 5th, 2006 11:21 PM
I'm not getting in a fistfight while I have a gun on my hip. Any physical confrontation I'm in is a deadly threat because in a wrestling match the badguy will find my gun and take it away from me. The badguy does not get to beat on me, find my gun and shoot me just because HE'S unarmed.
I may have to do other things in order to be able to draw my gun, but getting the gun out and on target is the goal.
Situations like this are why I practice shooting from retention.
"I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
September 6th, 2006 01:24 AM
Firing a gun is out of the question, IMO. There are friendlies in the elevator and the big brute is blocking my view. Always be sure of your target and what's behind it. Besides, firing a gun in such a small space could cause hearing damage for everyone.
I think I'd reach for my knife, possibly combined with a knee to the groin for distraction. With the assailant being 250 lbs and 6'2", there is definitely a disparity of force that justifies armed defense.
"So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause."
- Senator Padmť Amidala, "Revenge of the Sith"
September 6th, 2006 07:43 AM
Here's a little self defense tip or 2 for y'all.
1. If you are being held in a chokehold, and have any clearance at all behind you, just turn around. The hold will be breoken. Tactically dangerous, but so is being choked out.
2. Something I figured out for myself. LEOs are taught to break a chokehold by placing their baton on top of the suspect's arm, then pulling down. I have found that this also works if you use your own arm as a baton. Just reach over the offending arm with your arm, grab your wrist, and pull down. The BG will go to his knees, you will be over him. From there you can transition into another technique, such as an arm or wrist lock, head butt, or strike.
If you've never learned how to do a lock, get an LEO to show you. With the proper technique and force, you can get a BG to do anything you want. Pain compliance is really cool.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
September 6th, 2006 10:51 AM
Differing experiences: IME, compliance holds are worthless on drunks. I've had to grab a handful of crotch and pull a drunk back into his seat, when he decided he wanted to drive an ambulance, and LE had his right arm behind his back, wrist rotated all but 360 and folded over. He was still fighting.
I think EL misunderstood me, I was saying that, at the point we're picking things up, you need to be reacting with overwhelming physical force, but not your firearm, because of the friendly.
I've hung out with some fairly hard bikers, all about the size described. If one decides he's not happy with your presence, its going to hurt. My best friend was stationed in Dam Neck, a few years ago. He went clubbing, and had two guys try to mug him in an alley. My friend had had a few, and he still left one in the street with his (the BG's) switchblade through his scapula, and the other with two broken arms and a very crushed nose. He rides with guys of similar ability, but much less restraint, and significantly less moral compunction (ie, a character as described). Good incentive to train hard.
September 6th, 2006 11:36 AM
Simple, if the wife is with me, she draws and puts gun to head of BG.
If wife not presant, boot to the groin, followed by boot to the head...
September 6th, 2006 11:51 AM
I'll second Rob72's comments regarding compliance holds and would add emotionally-disturbed individuals, individuals who are high and seriously-committed individuals to the list along with drunks.
Originally Posted by paramedic70002
That's a great technique for when you want to show the fella's what you learned in Karate/self-defense class. It is a totally improper technique for the real world.
You may escape the front choke, only to be placed in a serious choke from behind (if you thought the front choke was challenging, try a properly applied rear choke), have your head bounced off of the wall (probably repeatedly), be struck at the base of the skull (probably repeatedly), be struck in the kidneys (probably repeatedly)....
In addition to subjecting yourself to numerous equally dangerous or more dangerous attacks, you severely limit your ability to respond. It is pretty difficult to effectively strike a person who is working you over from behind. In fact, you will most likely find that turning back around will be a serious challenge, if you manage to stay on your feet/conscious that long. Bad technique.
There are plenty of ways to escape a simple front choke that do not involve turning your back to your assailant. If you don't know one, seek a competent, unarmed self-defense instructor.
September 6th, 2006 12:32 PM
September 6th, 2006 02:41 PM
I think that people using hand and feet to harm one another is wrong and we should all have our arms and legs cut off.
September 6th, 2006 03:15 PM
I voted other as there would probably be a combination of things used except any kind of spray.
Spray something in an elevator and it is going to get you too!
The BG may be one of the 10% it just POs while you and your loved ones are put out of the fight.
Be Safe and Careful,
Mountaineers Are Always Free
September 6th, 2006 07:06 PM
I'm 6'4" 300 lbs this guy has exactly 1/2 of a heart beat before I knee him in the groin.
"The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
September 16th, 2006 10:18 PM
My loved one pulls her 45 and shoots him for me.
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