This is a discussion on Elevator Nightmare within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sounds like a perfect time to use a KaBar TDI....
use pepper spray
Sounds like a perfect time to use a KaBar TDI.
If I've got my gun, it's in his face and he's got exactly 0.5 seconds to let go of me. If not I'm going to have to shoot him. If I see any movement other than his hands letting go during that time I'm going to shoot.
If I've got a knife it's going to come up under the arm into the armpit of the arm he's grabbing me with. Might be lethal, might not...at this point I dont care...but it should make him let go...if it doesnt the next step is in the thorax in the vicinity of the diaphragm and twist.
"Life exists at a level of complexity almost beyond our ability to comprehend. It's a well known fact that if you try to take apart a cat to see how it works one of the first things you have on your hands is a non-working cat" - Douglas Adams
"All things are governed by law" - Hippocrates
Block the punch with my left arm grabbing and hanging onto his right arm if possible. Simultaniously a knee to the groin and use the four fingers of my right had in a open V position forcebly inserting two fingers into each eye socket and then curling my fingers to grab the zygomatic bone under his eye socketts. Violently twisting my hand to the right and forcing his head backward exposing his throat. If the attack is broken off at this point ok, if not bad news for him when my left hand lets go of his right arm and grabs his adams apple.
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.
I am getting to old and lazy for a long, drawn-out, knock-down drag-out fight, even if it is between floors.
My solution is to use everything including my own skull as a weapon that I can possibly utilize to my benefit. Even when drunk, certain pressure points still work well. I have a homemade kubaton on my key ring. It goes everywhere my gun does. At that range, a 10oz piece of aluminium can be quite destructive, as well as a knife, or even the keys on the afore-mentioned key ring.
My knees, elbows, skull, fingers, feet, fists, even my body weight can all be used to my advantage.
Skull to the nose, knee to the groin, foot stomp , palm strike/fist to the xiyphoid. Those four strikes (not necessarilly in that order), delivered as violently and quickly as possible should, I repeat...should, have the drunk bloody, dazed, in pain and attempting to find air, crumpled on the deck before the doors open at the next floor. If not, repeat until they do.
I voted H2H, because i have had a situation very simular to the one described actually happen to me and that was how i dealt with it. Using a concealed firearm was not an option for me as the hotel /casino i was stying at kinda frowned on that.
A armed person is a citizen-An unarmed person is a future victim.
I'd go with my knife for sure. I pretty much always have a spyderco civillian on me these days. I'd like to say that I'd use some cool strike, but having been in scary situations before: I'd probably just slash him across the stomach right off away with the expectation that his insides would be on my shoes almost right away.
A knife really is an ideal weapon when someone is right up you and they don't know or care if you are armed. I'd never even consider going to my pistol in this sitation.
Makes you think. He obviously means me harm and is demonstrating the ability to do so, he is larger than I and I has no escape route. First instinct when grabbed would be to as violently as possible smash or poke him in the throat,eyes, etc. If that did not convince him to cease, my knife would hack his arm, then his knees, and I'd kick and stomp the @#$% out of him as he went down,( hard to punch or stand with severed tendons and gaping wounds ) until he was no longer threat. If that did not work, he continued his attack, and I could get a clear shot, he'd have at least ONE hole in him. I think the others in the elevator would make good witnesses as to who started this matter.
Well i am scared of elevators in the first place so i avoid them whenever possible. But as long as i have the reach i would drive my fingers into the soft part of the throat just below the adams apple if that didnt loosen the grip them right for the eyes. Assuming he is that much larger then me i would stomp feet, kick shins, and kick groin till i was released. after he let go then its on like donkey cong, and i am gonna put a beat down till he is no longer a threat.
I voted hand to hand. I think the time it would take to employ the
weapon would be better suited to manually controlling the situation (and
possibly allow a weapon to come out later).
A good choke can render you non-mission capable in a matter of seconds.
Given that this situation he is using one (probably non-dominant given
statistics and his choice of punching hand) hand, is drunk, and is
cocking his arm back (not recommended in many fighting styles that I'm
aware of), his choke hold is probably not a good one. None the less, I
want to spend as little time possible in the BG's grasp.
My first thought: katatori sankyo.
Assuming BG is grabbing my neck at more or less arms' length. Strike
with the left hand somewhere around the armpit, preferably inside the
bicep to help raise the arm. At the same time, grab the BG's left hand from underneath and rotate counterclockwise (also raising the elbow). Duck under the arm, position his forearm in a vertical manner and rotate it behind him. Continue applying pressure until he is up against a wall.
If he's grabbing my neck with his left arm mostly collapsed, ikyo instead. Lift his elbow and push toward his ear. Control the wrist with my left hand. Pivot on my right foot and step around to his 6 with my left. Circular motion out and around (possibly with his head finding a wall)
Third option: Take advantage of his poor pre-strike posture.
If his arm is cocked back it limits his forward moving power. By extending my arm to my front (probably to block the bicep would be the best bet) I could intercept his strikes before they have a chance to develop full force. Follow up with strikes to exposed flank.
This is not something I recommend for anyone who has not practiced.
"and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"
I chose other. I am not going to spend time reading every response on this. I can sum up what I woud do in these few words:
BEAT THE LIVING OUT OF HIM! Do whatever I have to do to win. It is game on and there are no rules. Someone's life will be forfeit and I will do everything in my power to make sure it is not mine or my family's.
I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.
No time to think, can't take a chance of leaving a BG with the ability to kill, maim, rape other family members. First mag shot upward from close to hip into upper chest/head area, second mag if he still has any chance of getting back up.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
I picked "other", because bringing a gun into play in an elevator is not a wise decision under even the most favorable "you're alone with the BG" conditions. Since I'm with my wife, it would be out of the question, there is too big a chance she could become a "friendly fire" victim in those close quarters.
Primary object with (micro-seconds are passing)
1) defuse the situation, but remaining calm and just say "Nothing" to see if he releases his hold.
2) that failing, I want to take this guy out "fast", so car keys or any blunt object will do. I'm pretty sure my wife has not remained still while this is going on.
“Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.” James Dean
Phil (NRA Member and Vietnam Vet)
------------- My CCW ----------------
No Guns Here Boss
I gave them to the naked Pigmy's in New Guinea
Here is my rationale:
If you are the one with the gun, why make it so that you are the first one grabbed, when that will possibly prevent you from accessing your gun, or result in a struggle for your gun once you draw it?
If you have your unarmed girlfriend between you and BG, and he grabs her, you are left free to draw, aim, and fire as needed. You may even have the luxury of making a contact shot. But if you are the one grabbed, because you are proximate to BG, your defensive gun and defensive capabilities might well be overcome, in which case after BG debilitates you or finishes you off, you have left GF to become second victim.
The plan of being between them seems to me to be too much "head buried in being macho and manly" and not actually practical in the self-defense/couple-defense realm.
If you stand to be the only real defender in the scenario, to me, it makes sense that you keep yourself safe so that you have the opportunity to respond to an aggressive act as unencumbered as possible. Does that mean having GF be a "decoy"? Well, she has the choice to be a CCWer too, right? Why doesn't she exercise it? And my real underlying feeling is that I'd rather be back behind her to draw aim fire while he is just beginning his attack because chances are it won't be grave or lethal in the first few seconds, which is when I'd be reacting. But if I were the one to bear the first attack, that may well derail ALL defensive capability that we as a couple might have otherwise had.
I'm interested in feedback on this theory.