Elevator Nightmare

This is a discussion on Elevator Nightmare within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sorry, had this mixed up with other elevator post!...

View Poll Results: In scenario, I will:

Voters
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  • use gun

    76 39.38%
  • use taser

    9 4.66%
  • use batton/kubotan/etc

    10 5.18%
  • use pepper spray

    13 6.74%
  • use knife

    43 22.28%
  • go mano-a-mano(hand-to-hand)

    59 30.57%
  • other

    28 14.51%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Elevator Nightmare

  1. #61
    kpw
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    Sorry, had this mixed up with other elevator post!
    Last edited by kpw; March 14th, 2007 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Oops

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  3. #62
    Member Array nasm's Avatar
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    What to use

    I chose to use the knife and here's why. You're in an elevator, that rules out pepper spray right away. I am sure you'd be affected and this guy may not react as badly as you do to it. If i can't see around/behind the guy I'd be reluctant to shoot, also, you're in an elevator, have fun hearing after that. I would not completely rule out the use of the gun, but I imagine my knife, which I almost always have would come to my hand quickly and would be very effective in that situation. I don't carry a baton or the like or a taser so those are ruled out. Hand-to-hand is not a real option as I don't have that kind of training and the guy is much bigger than me and already has the physical upper hand on me.

    Just my views.

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    I'm not going to waste time talking, he's assaulting me (and a choke is considered deadly force in most places). I voted empty-hand, knife, or kubaton (or other small impact weapons) because I don't want to be spraying or shooting inside a confined space with my family.

    specifically, for the scenario you described, I'd probably gouge his eyes or hit him in the throat to loosen him up, then clinch and start blasting him with knees and elbows until he was no longer a problem.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  5. #64
    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    Hand on my throat, gun under his chin. Game over
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  6. #65
    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
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    It will be "on".....

    Extreme violence the from the second contact is made.....
    "fair fights" do not exist, and in short order, neither will this threat....
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

  7. #66
    Member Array jeffkirchner's Avatar
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    I chose "gun". 6'2" 250#, all 11 shots will be muffled by his fat, so I wouldn't worry about my, or someone elses, hearing.
    The early-bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

  8. #67
    New Member Array Sinsaba's Avatar
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    I never was a fighter so I never learned this fancy hit there, strike this, kick that stuff. I'm physically in less than good shape and I'm more than half way through my life expectancy. The point I'm making here is that I have every reason to fear for my life in this situation.

    I will do whatever it takes to abate the threat. With his hand around my neck I have very few options as to how I stop the threat.

  9. #68
    Senior Member Array mark555's Avatar
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    I voted to use the gun. Why you might ask. I don’t normally carry any of the other choices. Pepper spray in an enclosed space? Not the best idea, even if it worked on the thug. I was a self defense instructor for 10 years in the AF baton, pepper spray, hand to hand. Baton; fighting with it extended in an elevator would suck. You would need to use closed baton strikes for it to be effective in such a close environment. Like most everything else to be effective you need to be trained in how to use and where to strike for a baton to do you any good. Most use of force continuums that I have seen view a head shot with a baton as deadly force so, I think a gun would be my best bet. Someone else can do the mano-a-mano, me I have limitations and am not too proud to admit it.
    "Hell of a thing, killin' a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have."
    - William Munny (Clint Eastwood in the Unfrogivin)

    “The graveyards are full of indispensable men.” – Napoleon Bonaparte

    “My Idea of a fair fight is beating baby seals with a club”

  10. #69
    Senior Member Array Super Trucker's Avatar
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    As quick as my thumb leaves his eye socket and my foot returns from his "package", I would punch as hard as possible to his adams apple. Grab my kid/family member and leave the area at the next floor.

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    This is why I carry a knife. I'd use it in the situation you describe.
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  12. #71
    Member Array foreveryoung001's Avatar
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    Elevators make me vervous... Not the fact that it is hard to defend yourself, its just some strange phobia I've had since I was a kid. So, I try to avoid them whenever possible.

    Easy to avoid in my small town, but when I visit the big cities, I usually have to give in and use them.

    That said, I try to always stand in the center... much to the anger of other folks that expect me to move closer to the wall when they get on. SO, all in all, it wouldnt be easy to pin me against the wall by the throat. He might be able to use his whole body, but I'm still quick enough and still train enough in my martial arts to keep his hands away from my throat.

    If he did get me against the wall, I would drop to the floor. He would either have to use all of his strength to hold me up, be unaware of me dropping and fall against the wall himself if he wasn't quick enough to recover, or he would back up, allowing me to stand and fight.

    Someone this big... I would go right for his knees, shins, and groin. Most big guys like this are very slow on their feet, and I don't think it would be hard to hurt him below the waist. All I would have to do is make him think twice about coming after me until the doors opened... In a tall building... maybe a couple of minutes. I'm still in pretty good shape, so I don't think I would have a real problem.... I might get banged up a bit, But I know I would be able to hurt him a lot as well. I don't see this particular scenario as life threatening.

    Add a knife or gun to the scenario, and I would suddenly become a very easy going and friendly sheep clone until I saw an opportunity to draw and fire.
    When the messenger arrives and says 'Don't shoot the messenger,' it's a good idea to be prepared to shoot the messenger, just in case.

  13. #72
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Well I am 5'5" and 196lbs BG has a great deal of height on me but not too much weight considering.

    Depending on circumstances I would most likely drop to break grip draw my knife while turning around and attempt to hamstring the BG. After that if it was my wife with me I would retrieve her stun gun and drain the batteries for a bit. While she called the police.

    Not to worried about taking a hit from somebody that big, most of my childhood involved worse beatings than some drunk could give me.

    Too constrained and too fast to rely on a firearm draw. Would be effective if sucessfull, however you have to point a gun, you only have to move a knife. Add that to the fact that the design of most grips would assist you being disarmed with a forward tug and a twist.

    If I were by myself I would probally use a bit less force at first and probally wouldnt call the police if just a standard assault, but with my wife I would worry too much about her being injured if I were to be incompacitated (she is 4'11 and about 125lbs).

    Whatever course of action that one decides must be done quickly however with priority to evacuation, even in mid attack if escape opened up I would take it.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

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  14. #73
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    I voted other because it most closely matches what I believe.

    I agree with Shadowsbane.

    In my younger days, I had my butt kicked enough that punches don’t scare me. Besides, in this scenario, I actually outweigh the bad guy even though mine is not primarily muscle.

    Even though I am in lousy shape, I can use my weight pretty effectively, especially in close quarters like an elevator.

    The key to this scenario is are you a fighter with a gun or a gunman who may have to fight? If you are a gunman, you will fixate on using the gun even if that is not prudent.

    You really need to be a fighter who will use whatever is available and can be brought into action.

    If the guy has already grabbed you by the throat, the idea that you can easily draw the gun or knife or cell phone or prayer book or whatever is wishful thinking.

    If he smashes your face or breaks your neck while you are trying to get your weapon into play, what’s the point?

    I believe that the first move should be to deflect his attack while countering with as overwhelmingly violent an attack as you can mount.

    If he is unarmed and I am alone, I doubt I will draw any weapon.

    If my family is with me, my Spyderco may come out at some point.

    I truly believe that at such contact ranges the knife is a much more devastating weapon than the gun.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  15. #74
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Seeing as I am 6'04" and 300 pounds it would be tough to justify deadly force. I would probably go with a wrist lock to start and some pain compliance techniques until he decides to play nice.

  16. #75
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulG View Post
    ...The key to this scenario is are you a fighter with a gun or a gunman who may have to fight? If you are a gunman, you will fixate on using the gun even if that is not prudent.

    You really need to be a fighter who will use whatever is available and can be brought into action.

    I believe that the first move should be to deflect his attack while countering with as overwhelmingly violent an attack as you can mount.

    ...I truly believe that at such contact ranges the knife is a much more devastating weapon than the gun.
    Good points.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

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