Is pointing a gun at a BG an acceptable violation of safety rules?

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Thread: Is pointing a gun at a BG an acceptable violation of safety rules?

  1. #46
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    Is pointing a gun at a BG an acceptable violation of safety rules?
    This is why people should take professional training.





    "Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy." - Is pointing a firearm at a BG whom you are fully prepared to destroy a violation of the safety rule? NO !!!!
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  3. #47
    Member Array ping.brady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    NEGATIVE.

    Different standards,different rules. Law Enforcement "engages" people everyday in the performance of their duties.

    Not even remotely the same thing. Anyone with a lick of sense could figure that out.
    Keep your pants on sister. I quoted the wrong part. "No threat=no gun" should apply to both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miketrance View Post
    No threat=no gun. Civilians aren't law enforcement. We don't need to be engaging anyone unless our life is in danger.

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    ummmmmm
    Huh? Firearm out and pointed at BG---I am less than a second away from discharge. If I am not, where in the world is the imminent danger? Does the word "brandishing" come to mind? How close do you have to be to not be brandishing when the "supposed" BG is not presenting an imminent threat? Four guys with pants at their knees and lots of swagger and loud boom boxes are walking toward you at night---threat? Firearm out? Not really. Do not get me wrong--I do not want to be in a situation where the "possibility" exists but "imminent" is still the key word and situational awareness/avoidance is more operative than having your firearm out of its holster. Hey--just me sayin. Sure is easy to say when you are at computer and not in the what if situation.

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Of course this also brings up more stuff you have to know. Like if you pop one of the club wielding drunks and he goes down, can you shoot the other? No. Once the first guy goes down, the disparity of force is no longer able to be used, now what?

    I highly suggest Mas Ayoobs book, "In the gravest extreme". Knowledge is power.

    And as others have said, if I have drawn my gun (whether I fire or not) I am willing to destroy whatever I have it pointed at, so I am not breaking that rule.
    Not sure I agree with this. If I pop one of the drunks and he goes down, the other still has his club, He has Ability to harm me, He is near me Opportunity to harm me, and if he comes towards me, especially knowing that I am am armed he has demonstrated Itent. Michigan is a stand you ground state, at least for now so since I am not an olympic sprinter, and don't have eyes in the back of my head, I don't plan on turning my back on this guy and trying to flee. If he doesn't immediatly drop his weapon and run when his buddie hits the ground but instead wants to avenge him then he will be joining his buddy on the ground.

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    Is pointing a gun at a BG an acceptable violation of safety rules?
    Something I just saw postulated on an LEO site, unfortunately the article was LOCKED as LEO only.

    But the question is relevant to civilians and LEOs alike. You for whatever reason have a bona fide "suspect" at gunpoint, yet he is not at that moment presenting a clear and credible threat to you. Most agree that your finger should NOT be on the trigger. But should you also "aim away" or keep your aim on target? What should the LEO do?

    without a doubt gun in the ready position and make him/her get in a prawn or neutral position until help arrives. you can't ever tell what someone has on them. I read somewhere that if a person has a gun on a subject for more than 30 seconds their mind starts to wander off into other things so this is something to keep in mind when holding someone at gun point

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Of course this also brings up more stuff you have to know. Like if you pop one of the club wielding drunks and he goes down, can you shoot the other? No. Once the first guy goes down, the disparity of force is no longer able to be used, now what?
    Why can't you shoot the other club wielding drunk? If he was a gun wielding drunk could you shoot him or would it have to be two gun wielding drunks in order for you to be good to shoot?

    If a person is approaching you with a club and expresses intent to harm you, what are you supposed to do, go hand to hand with them? I think not.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  8. #52
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Why can't you shoot the other club wielding drunk? If he was a gun wielding drunk could you shoot him or would it have to be two gun wielding drunks in order for you to be good to shoot?

    If a person is approaching you with a club and expresses intent to harm you, what are you supposed to do, go hand to hand with them? I think not.
    I guess I didn't really think about the club wielding part. That is a weapon, my bad. I meant if 3 UNARMED guys approach you, a 6'2, 250lb ex-Marine could claim disparity of force and shoot two of the three, but if the last guy is 5'9, 150 he couldn't shoot that guy once the other two are out of the fight. My bad guys.

  9. #53
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    There's a couple themes going on here that don't ring well with me.

    1. "If I draw I fire." But what if you're in your pajamas, and you pick up a gun to investigate something in your house? There is no "draw." You are armed.

    2. Same scenario as above. You find someone in your house. You draw down on this guy who is apparently unarmed, say only wearing swim trunks, and at a safe distance, or is stumbling drunk or otherwise unable to initiate a running charge, say half asleep on your sofa. He immediately apologizes or gives you some excuse for being in the house that sounds halfway legitimate, and seems sincere. "I thought this was my buddy's house, he always leaves the key under the mat for me," and you DO leave a key under the mat.

    Not saying put the gun away, but I don't think it should be "on target" either.
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  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    There's a couple themes going on here that don't ring well with me.

    1. "If I draw I fire." But what if you're in your pajamas, and you pick up a gun to investigate something in your house? There is no "draw." You are armed.

    2. Same scenario as above. You find someone in your house. You draw down on this guy who is apparently unarmed, say only wearing swim trunks, and at a safe distance, or is stumbling drunk or otherwise unable to initiate a running charge, say half asleep on your sofa. He immediately apologizes or gives you some excuse for being in the house that sounds halfway legitimate, and seems sincere. "I thought this was my buddy's house, he always leaves the key under the mat for me," and you DO leave a key under the mat.

    Not saying put the gun away, but I don't think it should be "on target" either.
    i Concur. i can't quote statistics or even speak from experience, but in a situation where a possible assailant still had the capacity to make a judgement call, i would like to think drawing my weapon stands a good chance of defusing the situation.

    "If i draw i shoot" is too absolute for me. The decision to draw is absolute. The decision to shoot is absolute. They should be two different decisions IMO.

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