This is a discussion on Elevator Nightmare 2 within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I would start praying Jack Bower would drop through the emergency panel in the ceiling. It would be one those times where you would have ...
I would start praying Jack Bower would drop through the emergency panel in the ceiling.
It would be one those times where you would have to draw my main weapon and bug and hope for the best and keep firing until I'm out of ammo
"[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
They are left in full possession of them."
Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." ~Alexander Hamilton
No possible means of retreat...outnumbered and an agressive action having been initiated by likely very bad guys.
I am shifting from C-Red into survival/attack mode.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
As soon as I saw the BG's, hands on the Glock.
And you can bet that there is one "IN THE PIPE"
For me no need to verbalize, at this point to late to talk.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I’ve only been in a situation like this one time in my life. We were having dinner at an expensive Italian restaurant. We’d been among the last patrons to arrive; and we were, also, among the last to leave.
Just before we got up from the table, a terrific fight broke out at the bar. Two, apparent, ‘wise guys’ started to shout at each other. This was quickly followed by a loud tête-à-tête shoving match.
The owner of this place was playing bartender; but, all he did was to, just, stand behind the bar with a smirking Cheshire cat grin on his face. Restaurant owner, or not, he seemed more interested in seeing how things were going to turn out than in protecting his establishment’s, ‘fine reputation’ (and customers) from harm.
As we stood up to leave, these two guys (and their respective companions – a woman with one, and a man with the other) were between us and the door. When we started to move they looked over at us with genuinely menacing stares before turning, again, to confront each other.
One guy started yelling, ‘Sal, you can’t disrespect me like that!' 'Do you know who I am?' 'Do you know who I am!’
The other guy replied, ‘Joey, take it easy; this ain’t the right place.’ ‘Go home.’ ‘Go home, and sober up!’
Joey came back with, ‘This ain’t the right place?’ ‘It ain’t!’ ‘I will F-N kill you!’ ‘Do you hear me?’ ‘I will F-N kill you!’ ‘You can’t talk to me like that!’
Sal lowered his head and said, ‘Joooey!’
We were between them, but, slightly off to one side. I immediately wanted out of what I knew to be the makings of a really bad scene. (And I had no intention of allowing, either, myself or my wife to become a witness!)
Now, my wife and I have been together for a long time; we know, ‘How’ to act as a team. As I stepped behind her and gently pushed her body in front of me, she knew exactly what I was about to do; and, ‘Why’ I needed to behave this way.
As we moved toward the door, the restaurant owner and both wise guys looked over at us. I smiled and said; ‘You, gentlemen, have a nice evening.’ Everyone hesitated for a moment, looked at each other, and then decided to let us leave.
We jumped in the car; my wife took the wheel; and we got, the heck, out of there! Dinner was a hundred bucks; and I, deliberately, didn't leave a tip. This event happened a couple of years, ago. Needless to say, we’ve never gone back to that place.
Sometimes I wonder whatever happened to Joey, and Sal?
Last edited by Ghost Who Walks; September 6th, 2006 at 02:46 PM.
I know i'm gonna get slammed but at the point i get pushed back into a closing elevator i am backing up, drawing, dropping down and shooting!.
right wrong or whatever but somebody else is gonna get shot at least once...probably empty the 7 rounds of 45 cal as fast as possible.
i may go to prison since there was no "real" threat but i WILL shoot them or a few of them
and was said before "if ya hafta think too much it could be your last thought".
i would not want to give them the chance to draw first and 3-4 on 2 (me being the only armed person) is not gonna happen on somebody elses terms if i can help it.
This is mine. That is yours.
Lets keep it that way.
Pretty much with Solo- maybe a different approach: take a hostage. Grab the Shover, and screw a Seecamp into his eye, with, "Yep, G-D big hurry....". Direct the buddies to the same side of the hall and away, wife moves out behind me, buddies are directed into the elevator, and Shover is shoved in with them. Go to our room and lock up. Noncompliance could get messy.
Call the front desk and report an attempted mugging with descrip. Depending on location, report use of force, or simply say we "evaded in timely fashion". Get the Desk to get us a new hotel, or we call the news.
roll right hand under N over do thumb lock, break thumb, while he is crying like a baby pull HK tactical mode in tight, aim center mass and order them to retreat immediately or you will use deadly force to defend.
"The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
You are out numbered and the other guys have made the first move. Its time to shoot or be robbed or raped. If I could help it I would try to not get pushed back into the elevator. I would shoot the nearest BG to me and then take out as many as I could. By this time some of the guest should be awake and calling the frount desk. It won't be too long till the cops show up. Please do not ever let this happen in NYC.
situation dependent...maybe they are looking for the Christian Science Reading room.....but given that they look to beat me down and hurt my wife (or worse), I would back up to get that split-second compliance, draw--fire to stop the threats....reload...scan 360...call 911...wait for an attorney
They hain't planning on selling you a time-share, step back very quickly and get'r done.
Now that you have raised the scenario, I will make sure the wife knows to get to the side, by the control panel, and hits the alarm button immediately. Avoidance, if possible, is still the best.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
One of the reasons I like pocket carry is the ease of being able to have the hand discreetly on the weapon in such situations. I have been in elevators where boisterous groups of young men have crowded into the cabin. I've had a couple of instances where I'm sure the person was scoping for an easy "mark."... one of the guys sticks his hand on your chest and gently pushes you backward as if he is trying to get you back into the elevator. As he does this one of the others says, something along the lines of “ You guys in a hurry to get someplace?”
Having a plan with the S.O. to strike the alarm button is a good idea, but that would be independent from my action. Unknown if all elevator alarms "call" anyone. I'm assuming so, but that can't be the only action in a case of direct attack by three strong, young men acting in concert.
Disparity of force; acting as a cohesive unit to force compliance; specific words illustrating intent; the fact that I've got someone I'm responsible for; and the simple fact that I'm disabled and cannot withstand an assault for long. These elements mean that, as soon as it tips to a violent assault, I'm immediately drawing and firing.
An enclosed cabin of an elevator can be a dangerous place, but it also forces entry/egress directly through the lane of fire. Thus, it's similarly highly dangerous for those committing the attack.
Bad situation. I am truly thankful that the few instances where I've been a target are ones where the person decided to find an easier mark.
When I think about what I would do I can't help but have flashbacks of Bernard Getz. In a subway with a bunch of thugs with screwdrivers. In fear for his life. And his outcome.
I can picture myself drawing my gun and shooting.
But in the aftermath, I look like a looney for shooting these kids. They were unarmed and JUST wanting to get on an elevator. This is how the news will show it.
The DA would have to figure out if I shot because I was stereotyping these thugs. Would I have acted different if the kids were white thugs or drunk white men in suits trying to show off to there friends.
Is just being pushed in the chest a reason to use deadly force?
It's nice to take as much time as you need to think about these things because when the time comes, you won't have time to think. You will just do what comes naturally.
I think what I would do in this case is draw my gun and give loud verbal comands of what I want them to do. Any movements on there part that looks like they may be going for a weapon, then I will start shooting.
If they fully cooperate with my comands and respect the fact that I have control of the situation then no one will get hurt.
If they feel the need to test me, they will see that I'm not bluffing.
I would feel more justified doing it this way.
Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway.