Elevator Nightmare 2 - Page 4

Elevator Nightmare 2

This is a discussion on Elevator Nightmare 2 within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ex Soldier, Kotegaeshi is the spelling I'm most familiar with. I'd go an omote variation (if the BG is using his right hand) by grabbing ...

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  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    Ex Soldier, Kotegaeshi is the spelling I'm most familiar with. I'd go an omote variation (if the BG is using his right hand) by grabbing and moving forward and to my right dramatically and forcefully to create as much distance as possible. If he's using his left hand then it becomes katatori nikkyo omote (or some one handed variation thereof) and I move to my front left instead.

    An interesting side note: in my old dojo (at a college) we sometimes had to practice in a smaller room because the belly dancers had taken over. Since it was crowded we had to adjust our techniques to avoid running into each other. We referred to this as "Elevator Aikido".

    My goal here is to take the offensive, force them to react to me, get distance by forcing them to spread out (go back and they will just advance), and draw their attention away from the SO. At the soonest opportunity my hand goes to the weapon.

    Also, I'd like to hear opinions on a strategy of taking the fight out and away from the elevator in order to facilitate the escape of the SO.
    "and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"

    DaddyWarcrimes.com


  2. #47
    Member Array RTC1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick7340 View Post
    When I think about what I would do I can't help but have flashbacks of Bernard Getz. In a subway with a bunch of thugs with screwdrivers. In fear for his life. And his outcome. I can picture myself drawing my gun and shooting. But in the aftermath, I look like a looney for shooting these kids. They were unarmed and JUST wanting to get on an elevator. This is how the news will show it. The DA would have to figure out if I shot because I was stereotyping these thugs. Would I have acted different if the kids were white thugs or drunk white men in suits trying to show off to there friends.

    Is just being pushed in the chest a reason to use deadly force?

    I think what I would do in this case is draw my gun and give loud verbal comands of what I want them to do. Any movements on there part that looks like they may be going for a weapon, then I will start shooting.
    What was so horrible about Goetz's outcome? He's ALIVE. He was exonerated for his justifiable self-defense shooting. He was made an example of and slapped on the wrist for his undeniable possession & carry of an illegal handgun after his post-twin-mugging request for a CCW license was denied. He paid the price for making a stand and reduced the New Yuck City Predator population. The Predator paid the price for being a Predator. Goetz learned his lesson. Once free to do so, he moved out of New Yuck. He's alive, free and ambulatory. The paralyzed Predator will never walk again and can spend the rest of life adequately understanding the error of his ways and choosing to exhibit felonious malice aforethought against innocent citizen-prey. Justice.

    As far as the scenario, I seem to think different than most. The scenario's awful. In a hallway with 6 surrounding predators acting in concert, they can come at me from 3 directions at once & I can't adequately watch all 3 avenues at the same time. The moment any of 'em get a grab on my SO, we have hostage situation and my options get drastically reduced. That's a must-avoid. Protect the SO at all costs. I'd chop the pusher's arm off my chest and backstep myself & the SO into the elevator car immediately while drawing my CCW. Many repliers seem leery of being in confined quarters. I don't see it that way. By retreating into elev car they can only attack from 1 frontal direction while facing my muzzle. The muzzle's gonna be barking loudly if need be. The only words (if any) would be "You enter this elevator, you die". They've induced reasonable fear of grave imminent harm & you've reacted to it. You've given clear indication pursuit will be considered an attack, and you've given both clear reason as well as opportunity to cease and desist. If they enter the elevator after such warning, then attack is continuing and i respond accordingly. Meanwhile I'd have the SO hit the panel's "close doors" button, then the alarm button, in that order. Maybe with any luck the panel has a working call-for-aid handset. If you carefully read the given scenario elements, they already equate to justification. A degree of technical felonious assault and battery has already occurred. Your lawful progression of motion has been unlawfully arrested and prevented without authority, and clearly for further felonious intent. It's not "kids simply wanting to get on the elevator". One of them's trying to prevent you & your SO from exiting the elevator. It's tantamount to a mugging, robbery, abduction or kidnap in progress - possibly with rape of the SO as additional motivation. Who cares how the TV news sees it. What matters is how their actions made YOU see it & whether or not your actions were reasonable under the circumstances then & there existent. No, Mr. DA. I wasn't gonna let myself be trapped in a between-the-floors stopped elevator car and watch 6 gang-bangers rape and sodomize my SO. We were simply trying to leave the elevator car as is our right, and they were trying to stop us from doing so. My first and only Victim's Right is to not become the Victim of any Criminal at all, in the first place. Ever. For any reason whatsoever. Say THAT to the TV news cameras. Remind them of real truths that matter more than anything else. What your rights really are when accosted by criminal felons with apparent felonious intent. Stopping, deterring, preventing, with your actions dictated by their choices and decisions, their conscience and wisdom or lack thereof. Period.
    Last edited by Team American; March 21st, 2007 at 11:18 AM.

  3. #48
    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
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    +1 RTC

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    first thought (w/o reading the other posts):

    You're outnumbered (disparity of force), their comments and the fact that they've tried to push you back into the elevator would, to me at least, be clear indications that they intend you harm (you could probably make a case for attempted kidnapping/unlawful confinement). This being the case, there is no need for a warning...

    I might yell "stop" or "back off" AS I was drawing, but I wouldn't give a command and wait around to see if they were going to comply.

    just my $0.02

    edit: a couple more cents after reading through the thread and thinking about it a little more...

    -Getting out of the elevator is of supreme importance, you can't afford to stay trapped. Start cutting or shooting and the just forcefully "crash" your way out of the elevator (the retention shooting technique of covering high with your support hand and shooting from pectoral-index would probably work well here). A violent assault on your part might be enough to "spring the trap" and give you an avenue of escape.

    -The suggestion for taking a hostage has merit, if nothing else, it may buy you a few seconds to move out of the elevator and give you a chance to run

    -while I am very confident in my H2H skills, I don't want to get tied up with multiple attackers in a confined space, I'm only using my hands 'till I can draw a knife or gun (or knife then gun).

    Basically, just do what it takes to get out of there NOW.
    Last edited by KenpoTex; March 22nd, 2007 at 10:31 AM.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

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