A serious hypothetical for those in the know

This is a discussion on A serious hypothetical for those in the know within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by HotGuns The key here is paper trail. Get a legal paper trail going against the aggressor. An order of protection. File complaints ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The key here is paper trail.

    Get a legal paper trail going against the aggressor. An order of protection. File complaints against any illegal activity directed against you or yours. Be consistent.

    If the day comes when push comes to shove, and you have to use force, that paper trail will go against him in court.
    Here is you answer...PAPER TRAIL...get one going...it will be your friend.
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  3. #17
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    I have no problem with you getting a protective order, and encourage you to do so, however don't forget it's just a piece of paper, and may not mean squat to the BG.

    If you haven't already, right now begin increasing your Situational Awareness regarding this guy. If legal, a recording device is always a good idea for that chance encounter or threatening phone call from him.

    Good luck. Try and stay squeaky clean, with enough time he'll screw up or give up.
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    I have no problem with you getting a protective order, and encourage you to do so, however don't forget it's just a piece of paper, and may not mean squat to the BG.
    Thats pretty much the truth. If the guy is dumb enough to continue with the harassment, then he's probably too dumb to take a protective order very seriously.

    The paper trail will only mean something if he goes stupid on you. It simply tells the Judge,the Lawyers, the Cops and ultimately a jury that you tried to do right and do things the legal way. When you have to escalate to the use of force as the last resort, that paper trail will become an asset.

    A protective order...is'nt imho. Might just throw gasoline on the fire...
    It could. On the other hand, ignoring an Order of Protection does define the aggressors intent and it does so in a public way. If the violates that protective order by getting too close or continuing on with the acts of stupidity, a simple call to 911 will log the call. A lawyer can subpoena the call log and use the number of events in court. Its more of an "electronic" trail at that point, but when printed out and presented in court, it can be a very powerful tool which will be used by your lawyer.

    The the other side says something like",Mr. X was really an outstanding citizen that attended Sunday school every week, was loved by his mother, worked hard at his job and was just simply misunderstood", your lawyer can paint a realistic picture of him and prove that this guy was an idiot, because on several occasions he violated the law and he has the call log to back it up.

    So if it gets to the point that they are showing a chalk outline of his final resting position, the Jury ( if it ever comes to that) will take note.

    A good paper trail can be the difference between staying free or having a slick talking lawyer muddle the case enough that the jury is totally confused.

    I've seen it happen.
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    I'm of the opinion that if he really had the stones to kill you, he'd have tried it when he had the chance. People like this are usually all talk and no action.

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    I'm of the opinion that if he really had the stones to kill you, he'd have tried it when he had the chance. People like this are usually all talk and no action.
    That may be true with the majority of them,luckily for the one being harrassed.

    On the other hand, the examples of people that got killled by those that had a OP against them fill the graveyards.
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  7. #21
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    "The "Aggressor" has no criminal record,"

    Let's see, he allegedly threatened to kill you in front of witnesses while holding a blunt object.

    Was he arrested? Why not? How come?
    You have no criminal record. Good. What are you doing hanging around this guy if he is so bad?

    You say nothing about your relationship with him or why he is angry with you; both of which might come into
    play when deciding if the threats mean anything at all.

    Read "GIFT OF FEAR" by Gavin de Becker, as there is some good stuff in there regarding risk assessment in these situations.
    The author presents lists of preincident indicators you can use to judge the danger you are in, or not.

    If the aggressor is over 30, sane, and has no criminal past, he is probably just sounding off.

    On restraining orders. Some folks take them the way a bull takes a red flag. Again, get and read the book
    "Gift of Fear" for better and more extensive thoughts on these sorts of issues.
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    I am not a lawyer.
    If you have witnesses and a police report I would not only pursue a restraining order I would see a magistrate about a warrant. Not knowing what state you are in I can't speak to the specific laws there, but in many states the making of threats like that are "assault". Him actually striking you would be a case of "battery". If this was a misdemeanor assault and did not occur in the officers presence he may not be allowed to make an arrest in your state. However you can take your report ( in some places just the report number is enough) to a magistrate (or court commissioner or whatever they are called in your state) and fill out an application for statement of charges. You swear under penalty of perjury that all the information is true. Then based on your statement and the report the magistrate will either issue a warrant, a summons, or tell you they do no see sufficient evidence of a crime.
    If a warrant is issued, and you know where the guy is, call the police and they will respond for a wanted subject and pick him up.
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  9. #23
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    paper trail and be pro-active.

    hand off your collection to some one you trust....get them off of your property.

    suppose he files a RO and the police come to your home to get your guns?
    better they not be there.

    after you have cleaned house, than file a restraining order against him.

    as for the lawyer that says the police can't do xyz; when the cop is at the door, they will do it and tell you
    to sort it out at the station---but they will have your guns already.

    better to have nothing for them to take.

    or hold onto one for self defense. thats when having a glock proves its worth

    if i was rock & hard place, that would be my plan.
    and i have over the years held for others;
    divorces and some odd occurrences: lots of aggravation avoided
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Here is you answer...PAPER TRAIL...get one going...it will be your friend.
    Plus 1. Always keep a paper trail. This will be your best friend ever in a legal situation.

  11. #25
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    Thank you Sir, for the book recommendation and to everyone else for the responses. I do not associate with this low-life, he's a neighbor who's kids are convicted felons. They are the worst of the worst and he enables all of their behavior. They have been caught red handed numerous times, yet it's always someone else's fault. Why wasn't he arrested? I guess it came down to a he said, he said kind of thing. I was with my Wife when it happened, he had four family members that must have said it didn't. Thanks again to everyone, I will update at some point in the future, but until then I am going to check out the book and try to persevere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    "The "Aggressor" has no criminal record,"

    Let's see, he allegedly threatened to kill you in front of witnesses while holding a blunt object.

    Was he arrested? Why not? How come?
    You have no criminal record. Good. What are you doing hanging around this guy if he is so bad?

    You say nothing about your relationship with him or why he is angry with you; both of which might come into
    play when deciding if the threats mean anything at all.

    Read "GIFT OF FEAR" by Gavin de Becker, as there is some good stuff in there regarding risk assessment in these situations.
    The author presents lists of preincident indicators you can use to judge the danger you are in, or not.

    If the aggressor is over 30, sane, and has no criminal past, he is probably just sounding off.

    On restraining orders. Some folks take them the way a bull takes a red flag. Again, get and read the book
    "Gift of Fear" for better and more extensive thoughts on these sorts of issues.

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