A serious hypothetical for those in the know

This is a discussion on A serious hypothetical for those in the know within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi Folks, Begging your pardon for an unusual post but here goes. Let's say you were threatened by someone you have had issues with in ...

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    New Member Array gunguy77's Avatar
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    A serious hypothetical for those in the know

    Hi Folks,

    Begging your pardon for an unusual post but here goes. Let's say you were threatened by someone you have had issues with in the past, and this person told you in know uncertain terms that he would kill you. Let's also say the person had a large blunt object in his hand at the time, there were witnesses. The "Aggressor" has no criminal record, but is as low-life as they come and hangs out with some real bad customers (drug addicts, thieves, etc...)

    I collect firearms, and have for some time. No criminal record at all. Question is, If you were to get a protective order against someone who threatened your life, how easy is it for them to turn around and slap you with one? These people will lie until blue in the face. Point is, I am afraid to lose my guns!

    The incident was documented by the Police. Thanks in advance for any advice.

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    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    I think it will depend on several things: Who files first, state regulations, maybe other factors. Of course I qualify this with the usual I AM NOT A LAWYER. You really need to consult one, from your description.

    Here in Georgia, the Governor just signed a bill into law requiring the return of any weapons not being held as evidence in a criminal case to their lawful owners.
    "If you make something idiot proof, someone will make a better idiot."

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    New Member Array gunguy77's Avatar
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    Thank you for the response Sir.

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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Not too sure about a R/O, Welcome to the forum.

    Come on in, kick your shoes off ; )
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    Senior Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
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    I`d consult a lawyer just to be safe!.

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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    You should acquaint yourself with the principles of AOJ: ability, opportunity, and jeopardy. Ability: does the threat have the ABILITY to cause you serious bodily harm or death? In your scenario, they have a club, so yes. a club is a deadly weapon. O - Opportunity. How close are they? Are they within striking distance (research the Tueller drill). This will depend on the situation. If they have a club and are across the parking lot, then no. If they have a gun and are across the parking lot, then yes. Jeopoardy: are you in immediate jeopardy right now? Is the threat IMMEDIATE? In order to justify deadly force it has to be RIGHT NOW. It can't be based upon activity or threats in the past. If they are standing there with the club and saying, "I am going to kill you" that is different than saying (in the past) I am going to kill you and then simply standing in front of you with a club. A fourth factor that is often times included is preclusion, in other words is there anything you could have done to avoid the situation or avoid the use of deadly force. For example, have you tried to retreat? The principle of preclusion means that you had no choice but to use deadly force.

    If you look at situations in these terms, more often than not, you can answer the question as to whether or not deadly force is justifiable.

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    In Texas, as I've seen at least with my niece, you cannot get a protective order without some sort of verifiable issue like a recording of a threat, bruises, witnesses, etc.

    I wouldn't be too concerned. Then again, someone holding a blunt object saying they're going to kill me won't be an issue at all after that point.
    Doodle and Spade115 like this.
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    Laws vary from state to state. The other party may be able to get a restraining order, depending on your states laws. To the best of my knowledge, which I admit is limited in such things, I don't believe a restraining order is grounds for confiscation of your guns. It merely says you are not allowed within XXX number of feet from the person, and are not allowed any contact, be it physical or verbal. As others have suggested, contact a lawyer in your state for professional legal advice.


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    Distinguished Member Array Arborigine's Avatar
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    You may have good reason to hide your location, but be advised that all states have different laws. Talk to your local Sheriff. I have a ding-bat down the road, probably bi-polar. He seems to think of me as a special friend or enemy, depending on his mental state due to the fact that I impressed upon him the dire need for him to stay off my property and away from my family. Perhaps nothing will ever happen, but when he is exhibiting his peculiar actions and driving back and forth into other peoples yards, I call the Sheriff. Not that i think that they can or will do anything, but so that if I ever have to do something about it, there are reports on his behavior, and the neighbors call in too.

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    Ex Member Array RayBar's Avatar
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    Were the witnesses present when the threat to kill you was made? Are they willing to testify on your behalf?If you have documented issues with this person,that can play against you if you have to defend your self with deadly force.He can take out a protective order just like you if he has cause. But why would you care so long as you two stay apart. I am not a lawer,just some thoughts on this problem.If the witnesses heard the death threat,you might have some legal recourse,I would say thats against the law.Best advise,consult an attorney.Good luck,be safe.

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    The key here is paper trail.

    Get a legal paper trail going against the aggressor. An order of protection. File complaints against any illegal activity directed against you or yours. Be consistent.

    If the day comes when push comes to shove, and you have to use force, that paper trail will go against him in court.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    New Member Array gunguy77's Avatar
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    Thank you all so much for the information and welcome greetings.

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    New Member Array gunguy77's Avatar
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    A wealth of info thank you.....all of you!
    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    You should acquaint yourself with the principles of AOJ: ability, opportunity, and jeopardy. Ability: does the threat have the ABILITY to cause you serious bodily harm or death? In your scenario, they have a club, so yes. a club is a deadly weapon. O - Opportunity. How close are they? Are they within striking distance (research the Tueller drill). This will depend on the situation. If they have a club and are across the parking lot, then no. If they have a gun and are across the parking lot, then yes. Jeopoardy: are you in immediate jeopardy right now? Is the threat IMMEDIATE? In order to justify deadly force it has to be RIGHT NOW. It can't be based upon activity or threats in the past. If they are standing there with the club and saying, "I am going to kill you" that is different than saying (in the past) I am going to kill you and then simply standing in front of you with a club. A fourth factor that is often times included is preclusion, in other words is there anything you could have done to avoid the situation or avoid the use of deadly force. For example, have you tried to retreat? The principle of preclusion means that you had no choice but to use deadly force.

    If you look at situations in these terms, more often than not, you can answer the question as to whether or not deadly force is justifiable.

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    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Anglo View Post
    I`d consult a lawyer just to be safe!.
    What they said. But as someone else posted you will end up in court and the person that wants the order against you must have definitive proof of why they need the order. Obviously you have the right to refute (with facts) why the order should not be issued.

    Do keep in mind that you can not receive legal advise on this forum.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

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    Member Array 1911srule's Avatar
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    Talk to police. Keep a log of dates, times, specific incidents, witnesses, no matter how minor. Discretely find out what vehicles are driven by all of this persons known associates and keep a swivel on your head. Be prepared but don't do anything that is not strictly defensive in nature.Consider moving most of your firearms to a secure location away from your home. A protective order...is'nt imho. Might just throw gasoline on the fire...
    RIP Jeff Cooper

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