Home invasion video and discussion

This is a discussion on Home invasion video and discussion within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Agree w/ all points. We know from the lead in to the re enactment that this did happen. And, if the re enactment is true ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36
Like Tree30Likes

Thread: Home invasion video and discussion

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    riverview, fl
    Posts
    765
    Agree w/ all points. We know from the lead in to the re enactment that this did happen. And, if the re enactment is true to the occurrence, we know that the family survived, without resisting. So, then our discussion would have to be "What would you do to prevent this situation?".
    Most here would have steps in place that would probably have dissuaded our trio of goblins and redirected them to seek out much softer targets and easier prey. IF the trio pressed passed these layers, then they would seemingly be met with a degree of force that would not only be resisting, but overwhelming.
    And I did mention a few of those countermeasures in my original post. But I read tac's line of question about resisting to mean contact had already been made (as in the vid), and what, if anything different would we do?
    So, to answer tac's origianal question:
    1. when and what type of resistance to offer
    a. when? before it happens.
    b. what type? Layers-dogs, motion detectors, lights, alarms, kickplates, reinforced doors, hand to hand combatives, a family plan, hardware and software to apply as needed
    2. do you openly carry or conceal your weapon while at home?
    a. both, at times.
    b. if not on me, its close.

    dan
    tcox4freedom likes this.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    Member Array FLArmadillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Osceola County, FL
    Posts
    264
    I think Kathy was a little narrowly focused on her firearm's ability to save the day. Here is how I picture the evening going for her: BG#2 is murders her family before she manages to even fire her weapon on BG#1, BG#3 looking for war, comes back from another, unknown, part of the house; now it's 2 on 1, one armed BG in front of her, and another armed BG somewhere between her 3 and 9 o'clock. Chances are very well in the favor of all three GGs dead.

    Rich, being the cop, having considerable experience (I assume) with how all reactions play out in these situations, says to be passive and compliant. Here's how I see the evening going for him: just like the video, with the possibility that he gets shot while on the floor.

    Rob the SD trainer, with solid working knowledge of the options available for SD, as well as the mechanics of taking on another armed person, seemed to agree with Rich that once the BGs have breached the structure and and the GGs are in the position they were in the video that compliance is best.

    All of my predictions assume the situation in the video.

    What Rob immediately brought up leads to my opinion. Preparation is the only thing that could have saved the day here.

    Better door (outward opening?).
    Automatic perimeter lighting.
    Better arrangement inside the house.
    Good dog (alert, active, obedient, intelligent) inside the house.
    Keep the blinds closed at night, with them open, your actions and whereabouts in the house are on display for anyone outside, and yes, even closed, you will always notice if the lights come on (unless you are blind, in which case the dog is your best bet anyway).
    Bark'n likes this.
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,794
    If something like the Doormaster Pro was available for less than $100, I'd be inclined to install it on my home doors. At the moment, my neighborhood isn't a crime target but like the video shows, you could be mistakenly targeted.

    Still, no matter what, I am the Master and Lord of my castle. That means that I don't need or want to walk around 24/7 with a gun on my hip. When I'm in my abode, I'm the most dangerous thing in it.

    So. I've got a shotgun in the den right now about 2.5 feet from my right hand, in the bedroom there are handguns all over the place, in the guest room there's a spear and manriki gusari, there's a real (not repro) jutte in the bookcase, there are nunchaku in several areas, switchblades and fighting knives all around the house, staves, swords, and some fairly exotic kung fu weapons just about everywhere. There's almost no place in the house that doesn't have strong weapons available, and many of them are useless in the hands of an untrained fighter.

    Back to the scenario of the linked video above. I agree with the panel: Nothing than could be done. If three armed men rush in through the door and have the drop, your options are compliance and hope they don't start shooting. Hardening the doorframe, having dogs, motion-sensitive lights, etc., are possible options but it's hard to justify installing them without an identified threat.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    ct
    Posts
    1,887
    if you're the guy that can NEVER be surprised, or taken off guard

    rather than your congradulations Dan, better would be your understanding that it is not the 'having' of the gun that may be to your advantage---it is the ability to employ it in a meaningful fashion that can be a life saver. and that requires of you more than just training to hit multiple targets from the buzzer in under 2 seconds.....realize that to do that you must be awear of that which may happen and have plans----what-if plans. a game if you will, as you go through the day observing that which occurs around you and wondering "what if? such and such happens, where and how would i be affected? how can i survive? what can i change to have events be less of a determent to me? or negate the situation completely.

    as simple as sitting in a different seat.

    not parking in that location

    in general if you are to react, you need to be aware with time enough for your actions to effective.
    thus Situational Awareness is as important as speed and accuracy
    these 3 are what will help keep the level of violence to a minimum, possibly even negate it.
    --a fight avoided is a fight won--

    and if trouble is unavoidable, hopefully the edge will be yours.

    training for the basic 2 second level of competency may take 6 months
    training your SA such that it is up and running ( like Norton is to a computer) in the background
    may take a year. levels of ahievements vary, but you will know when you have reached your comfort level.

    perhaps i am a guest and this happens in their home...
    thus id have to play their game and tweak where possible to make it work for me.
    who with me is carring? how 'good' are they? i think i'll be trouble wise a plenty.
    success with this scenario will be easy to discern; i aim to be the one counting coupe
    or jamming with Jerry and Jim.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,353
    IF you are going to fight it has to be before they split up. One taking your family hostage and the other one going to other parts of the house is not good. Once that happened they control the situation.

    3 guys busting in your door with guns in hand and you caught with your pants down! NOT GOOD
    Bark'n likes this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  7. #21
    Member Array DblTapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Yulee, FL.
    Posts
    43
    We have 2 indoor dogs, 1 is 115lbs the other 55lbs, both bark when anything comes by the house. We both sleep with guns and flashlights/ cellphones and a hunting knife by our sides. When awake I walk around with nothing less then my 1911 or my 44 mag, I answer the door with it, it is never more then a arms reach from me. I am not inclined to ask why a person has broken into my house, once the perimeter is broken, I am in fear of my life and those around me, I will always shoot first. That was a great video, lots to learn. If anyone can afford it, I highly recommend you invest in having a reputable defensive trainer come to your home and train your family on the proper tactics, they will even show you how to strategically arrange your furniture to better suit you and your family.
    crue2009 likes this.
    I want, what they want, and every other guy who came over here and spilled his guts and gave everything he had, wants! For our country to love us as much as we love it! That's what I want!
    - Rambo, John J.

  8. #22
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    Just because in the real life scenario which was "re-created" in the video the homeowners complied and was not killed does not mean that anytime you comply you will survive. Dr. William Petit in Chesire, Connecticut complied to the point where the wife drove one of the invaders to the bank and gave them $10,000 cash and still the entire family was tortured and slaughtered leaving only Dr. Petit to survive... Barely.

    What to take away from this is that you are completely at their mercy. It is the invaders who will decide if you live or die. Complete compliance and giving them large amounts of cash is in no way a guarantee they won't kill you in the end. And that is what should be the motivating factor behind what you are going to do regarding fortifying your castle and having a plan to respond.
    tacman605 and Bill MO like this.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #23
    AOK
    AOK is offline
    Member Array AOK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    344
    I honestly believe the lady's comments along the line of not complying tells me she likely does not have that much training under her belt. If she does she needs to reconsider where she is getting the instruction from.

    I am confident in my abilities whether we are talking about h2h or firearms. With that said, along with good training comes knowing your limits. IF I was so unprepared and caught off guard this poorly there is not much I could do. If I try shooting it out when the guys first get in I may take some of the bg's out but me and/or my family will be likely taking some bullets as well. If I allow a bg to take me into the kitchen I can very likely get the gun from him since he was so close. However, I realize from my training what's hollywood and what's real world and it could take several seconds to get the gun and there will be nothing stealth about the struggle for the gun. After I get the gun the gig is up. The other bg's would likely be on edge and things could quickly get worse. One bg went down the hall and would likely be returning after hearing all of the commotion. The other bg is standing with a gun right next to the family. Did I really make things that much better now that I'm dealing with two ticked off armed bg's?
    jdsumner likes this.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    riverview, fl
    Posts
    765
    "anytime you comply you will survive"-Bark'n

    wow. I don't know that anyone said this. I said, "if the re enactment is true to the occurrence, we know that the family survived, without resisting". "the occurrence" being this one, particular case. The situation will determine the tactics used. The ability to read people, tone of voice, body language, etc will have a great influence on when and where to offer what resistance.

    Lemme try one more time:

    I THOUGHT ORIGINALLY that tac's question pertained to this situation AS IT WAS SHOWN. IE, what or when do you offer resistance at the shown point of contact? After being corrected, and beaten about the head and shoulders that this example was to discuss "what could / should have been done" to not ever be in this situation, I attempted to play the game w the updated rules.

    I had forgotten that no one here ever gets caught unaware, thus this situation could never happen. My bad.

    dan

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Metro DC
    Posts
    958
    "Ten years ago you didn't even think about home invasion."
    What planet has he been on?
    "People who take an Internet handle of a great warrior, are usually the first to go fetal when crunch time comes." - Me

  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,353
    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    I honestly believe the lady's comments along the line of not complying tells me she likely does not have that much training under her belt. If she does she needs to reconsider where she is getting the instruction from.

    I am confident in my abilities whether we are talking about h2h or firearms. With that said, along with good training comes knowing your limits. IF I was so unprepared and caught off guard this poorly there is not much I could do. If I try shooting it out when the guys first get in I may take some of the bg's out but me and/or my family will be likely taking some bullets as well. If I allow a bg to take me into the kitchen I can very likely get the gun from him since he was so close. However, I realize from my training what's hollywood and what's real world and it could take several seconds to get the gun and there will be nothing stealth about the struggle for the gun. After I get the gun the gig is up. The other bg's would likely be on edge and things could quickly get worse. One bg went down the hall and would likely be returning after hearing all of the commotion. The other bg is standing with a gun right next to the family. Did I really make things that much better now that I'm dealing with two ticked off armed bg's?
    As to Kathy's training I don't know what she has had nor do you. As for me and my training if there is to be a fight it HAS to be when they first come in. Going up against 3 BG with guns drawn is not good, in my training 2 is doable with 3 the % of taking hits going up as the # of BGs increase. But I have answered the question of why I carry a gun in my own mind and the biggest of those answers is I protect my family. I will give my life to obtain that mission. Three BGs coming in tells me they are not safe. So unless the vibes I get at the time of the situation tell me its hopeless I most likely reaction shorty after I get up off the couch. The longer one waits the more the chance of winning goes down as they get organized.

    Hopefully the family is either running to other parts of the house if they can without getting in the line of fire, but in what you can see of the layout of the house that's not possible here. So they should hit the floor, While I move away from family and engaging the 3 BGs. I'm moving away from family but into the the BGs trying to stack them so the back guy can't shoot without shooting his bud. I'm not going to cover as I want the fight and all eyes on me not my family. Main thing in this fight would be mindset I will fight till I can not fight no more.

    Yes I am the sacrificial lamb. Is this what all should or could do? NO
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  13. #27
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    Quote Originally Posted by jdsumner View Post
    "anytime you comply you will survive"-Bark'n

    wow. I don't know that anyone said this.
    Wow, talk about taking something out of context. That's right up there.

    Try the entire quote and not just half of a sentence.

    Just because in the real life scenario which was "re-created" in the video the homeowners complied and was not killed does not mean that anytime you comply you will survive. -Bark'n
    And while no one in this thread has said that yet, I can assure you plenty of people say it's best to comply, and they won't hurt you. Many of them are LEO who have their own agenda for not instructing people to resist.

    But there are many people who will say... and I quote, "Just give them what they want, and they won't hurt you!" Which is ridiculous advice, and they do not know what they are talking about.

    When I make a post in the forum, I'm not just addressing those who post in a particular thread but to the many thousands of people who are not even members who may be reading to try and gain some more information to base their decisions on.

    Now if you've read all three of my posts, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about and no need to try and create something which wasn't said.

    1) There's no guarantee that by complying, they will not hurt you. That is a dangerous assumption to make.

    2) If they have taken you by surprise, and kicked in your door with ease, they will pretty much control the events. Resisting at that point, may be suicidal.

    3) The best course of action is to not be a soft target to begin with and ensure that your home is fortified to a point where most intruders will not want to keep trying. And if they do keep trying to get in, it has afforded you enough notice and time to defend your home.

    4) Have a layered approach to your defense and don't just talk about it, but do it.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Metro DC
    Posts
    958
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Wow, talk about taking something out of context. That's right up there.
    Actually, I think a new standard has been set in this regard.
    "People who take an Internet handle of a great warrior, are usually the first to go fetal when crunch time comes." - Me

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Metro DC
    Posts
    958
    While none of this is necessarily a deal breaker, so to speak, whenever I see folks on the stage/at a lecturn talking about street combat/etc., I always wish I knew exactly what real world experience they have under their belt. Have they personally fought off a home invasion? How many arrests they have made? How many actual shootouts have they been in? What danger have they ever really faced?

    For me it helps set everything else into context.
    "People who take an Internet handle of a great warrior, are usually the first to go fetal when crunch time comes." - Me

  16. #30
    AOK
    AOK is offline
    Member Array AOK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    As to Kathy's training I don't know what she has had nor do you. As for me and my training if there is to be a fight it HAS to be when they first come in. Going up against 3 BG with guns drawn is not good, in my training 2 is doable with 3 the % of taking hits going up as the # of BGs increase. But I have answered the question of why I carry a gun in my own mind and the biggest of those answers is I protect my family. I will give my life to obtain that mission. Three BGs coming in tells me they are not safe. So unless the vibes I get at the time of the situation tell me its hopeless I most likely reaction shorty after I get up off the couch. The longer one waits the more the chance of winning goes down as they get organized.

    Hopefully the family is either running to other parts of the house if they can without getting in the line of fire, but in what you can see of the layout of the house that's not possible here. So they should hit the floor, While I move away from family and engaging the 3 BGs. I'm moving away from family but into the the BGs trying to stack them so the back guy can't shoot without shooting his bud. I'm not going to cover as I want the fight and all eyes on me not my family. Main thing in this fight would be mindset I will fight till I can not fight no more.

    Yes I am the sacrificial lamb. Is this what all should or could do? NO
    I understand the tactics and your plan and in the end as you said it's your decision. I think you are exactly right on being the sacrifical lamb. In addition to that plan, you likely sacrificed your families lives as well if you don't succeed on taking them ALL out or get them to take off. I am very comfortable sacrificing my life for my family. I wouldn't even think twice about it. With that said, unless there are no other options available I will not sacrifice my life and very likely leave my family to deal with armed bg's alone. I'm no good to my family dead.

    You mentioned in your post about hopeless. To me having 3 bg's in your house with guns pointed at you and your family (right by your family none-the-less) while you are lounging in condition white on your couch with your gun fully holstered, no cover for you and/or your family nearby..... that's pretty darn hopeless in my book. It is nothing more than my opinion but if we were in the same exact shoes as the victims in the video, anything but complying at the beginning would make a bad situation worse for my family.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

buds guns
,
discussion forum for victims of home invasion
,

home invasion scenario

,
home invasion scenarios
,
home invasion stats lansing mi
,
petit family home invasion reenactment show
,
powered by mybb barking dog motion detector
,
powered by mybb couples home video
,
videos of home invasion concealed carry
Click on a term to search for related topics.