Does your spouse know what to do if you're forced to draw your weapon?

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Thread: Does your spouse know what to do if you're forced to draw your weapon?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    That's 3 of us in a row! :D

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  3. #32
    Member Array danwdooley's Avatar
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    I really do think that we have to incorporate the "freaking out" factor into our response plans. Though we say we know how we'd respond in an emergency situation, we can't really say for sure until that time comes. For us who think about it and make it a matter of mental preparedness, chances are much better that we'll act on some degree of habit and instinct. That's what training is all about. Even if that training is informal and mostly self managed. For spouses and kids, especially for the kids and spouses who do not carry, I wonder how much beyond lip service to the efforts of preparedness exists. "Yeh, I know, if that's what you say I should do in an emergency, I've got it." And goes on to completely forget about it. I wonder if they may even resent the bother. They may see it as a bother if it's not in their nature to see things as potentially serious. Especially for those of us living in normally peaceful, quite suburbia where we don't see acts of violence every day. So though I think I know how my wife would react, and she is rather level headed as a rule, I would not want to bet our lives on it and do need to consider that in spite of perceived understandings ahead of time, things may not go according to plans if bad comes to bad.
    Dan,

    CZ82 nut

  4. #33
    Member Array danwdooley's Avatar
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    I suspect that one of the problems we guys face (sorry ladies if I'm misreading anything ) is that they may not take us as serious as they should at times. Certainly not as we'd like to be taken seriously. Remember, they often think of us as just grown up boys (maybe we are, a little) and thus this thing with guns and fighting and cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians is just games we overgrown boys play and so this thing about emergency response is just another of those silly boy games and not meant to be taken too seriously. Now I know that's an over dramatization and hopefully they do take it more serious than I'm picturing it. I guess the question is how to get them into the same mindset. So the guys who have wives who really are involved and are ready and willing to become their partners in the defense of their families are blessed.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
    Dan,

    CZ82 nut

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danwdooley View Post
    I suspect that one of the problems we guys face (sorry ladies if I'm misreading anything ) is that they may not take us as serious as they should at times. Certainly not as we'd like to be taken seriously. Remember, they often think of us as just grown up boys (maybe we are, a little) and thus this thing with guns and fighting and cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians is just games we overgrown boys play and so this thing about emergency response is just another of those silly boy games and not meant to be taken too seriously.
    I've gotten that 'look' when I bring up gun related stuff.

    My wife will forget to carry and leave her snubbie upstairs. She's also bad about leaving the door open with just a screen storm door for protection and not setting the alarm. When I talk to her about it I either get that 'look' or some excuse about being forgetful, snubbie is uncomfortable, etc...

    Thank God the two Shepherds follow her around all day.
    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array Brady's Avatar
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    That's just history through the ages fella. It generally takes a devastating experience to change their mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by danwdooley View Post
    I suspect that one of the problems we guys face (sorry ladies if I'm misreading anything ) is that they may not take us as serious as they should at times. Certainly not as we'd like to be taken seriously. Remember, they often think of us as just grown up boys (maybe we are, a little) and thus this thing with guns and fighting and cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians is just games we overgrown boys play and so this thing about emergency response is just another of those silly boy games and not meant to be taken too seriously. Now I know that's an over dramatization and hopefully they do take it more serious than I'm picturing it. I guess the question is how to get them into the same mindset. So the guys who have wives who really are involved and are ready and willing to become their partners in the defense of their families are blessed.
    ...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36
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  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    My wife's primary role when we're out together is to back me up. (If the kids are along, it's to protect them should things go bad.)

    We work on SA as a family. I constantly talk to my kids while we are out in public. I want them to recognize all the potential dangers in their environment. I guess it works pretty well because my kids know to choose a table where we can see everything & make an escape if we need to. They also are becoming a lot more attentive to people around them.

    We don't use any "code" words. My family knows what to do if I say "get down"; "take cover"; "get behind me and let's go"; "get to the bathroom" or "get to the emergency exit now".

    If I'm out with anyone besides family, I don't want to accidentally communicate in a "code" that someone might not understand.

    I want to be clear an concise as possible during a stressful L&D situation when I have to communicate effectively with someone. We all react differently in stressful situations and I don't want to run the risk of my wife or kids (or myself for that matter), forgetting the code.

    Personally, I don't see the point of code words; for the most part.

    -
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  8. #37
    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    This is a great thread, as it made me have this conversation with my family last night at dinner time.

    She and the kids now know to either retreat and call 911 (in the house) or get down low and behind me, seek cover and call 911 (in public).

    We also confirmed a family meeting place in case of fire.
    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason

  9. #38
    Member Array danwdooley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mano3 View Post
    She and the kids now know to either retreat and call 911 (in the house) or get down low and behind me, seek cover and call 911 (in public).
    mano, I presume when you said "get down low and behind me" that you do not mean to physically be directly behind you. The reason I'm bringing up this point is that you want to get them out of the possible line of fire. If the BG is shooting at you, anyone too close to you is also in danger. Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning, thus the question.
    Dan,

    CZ82 nut

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danwdooley View Post
    mano, I presume when you said "get down low and behind me" that you do not mean to physically be directly behind you. The reason I'm bringing up this point is that you want to get them out of the possible line of fire. If the BG is shooting at you, anyone too close to you is also in danger. Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning, thus the question.
    You're correct. Low and behind me in cover.
    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason

  11. #40
    Member Array catt101's Avatar
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    tcox - I agree with you!

    My Hubby and I work as a team. We both know whoever first identifies the threat "takes the lead" until the situation changes.

    Also, my son knows that in a situation, the first thing he is to do is to get behind me and take a hold of my waistband. That way, if I start to back up, he can feel me moving and back up also. That way, I am not going to trip on him and get distracted. He also knows to follow ANY instruction given to him. If I tell him "run back to store and call LEO, he will. If I tell him to run, he will run in a zig zag style to cover.


    We also practice SA as a family. We actively teach my son things to look for, to study body language, and identify potential threats. We also teach him to identify "sheep" behavior. This way, he can see what MAKES a person vulnerable to an attack.
    Unfortunately, in our area, we don't have to go far to see both "potential threat" and "potential victim" behaviors. We even took him on a driving tour of KC into the less savory areas just to let him look around.

    The only code word we have is a name for our carry pieces. That way, we can communicate without saying "gun" where others will hear us.
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  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danwdooley View Post
    I suspect that one of the problems we guys face (sorry ladies if I'm misreading anything ) is that they may not take us as serious as they should at times. Certainly not as we'd like to be taken seriously. Remember, they often think of us as just grown up boys (maybe we are, a little) and thus this thing with guns and fighting and cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians is just games we overgrown boys play and so this thing about emergency response is just another of those silly boy games and not meant to be taken too seriously. Now I know that's an over dramatization and hopefully they do take it more serious than I'm picturing it. I guess the question is how to get them into the same mindset. So the guys who have wives who really are involved and are ready and willing to become their partners in the defense of their families are blessed.
    That would depend on the woman (or kids) and how your over all relationship is. I know when my Hubby is serious...he is serious.

    If your wife or kids think they "know better" and don't trust your judgement on this issue...you have a problem on many levels.

    I am not trying to disrespect anyone or their relationship, but this is a fact. I know my grand daughter will do as told, but my daughter may not. She has "second guessed" me most of her life. I have this discussion with her often and even though she agrees....push come to shove...I know there is a chance she will go with her own mind. She doesn't do this to my Hubby. I have taken to discussing news of the day and asking her what she would do. If it is good....I tell her....if it is bad....I explain why. She needs to remember that I have the experience, training and ability to perform and to TRUST ME.

    Your wife....my daughter. We all have a "wild card". All we can do it try to educate them and let them know we do know of what we speak.
    danwdooley and tcox4freedom like this.
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  13. #42
    Member Array danwdooley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catt101 View Post
    We actively teach my son things to look for, to study body language, and identify potential threats. We also teach him to identify "sheep" behavior. This way, he can see what MAKES a person vulnerable to an attack.
    Another great point. I know that I can see behavior patterns which can signal potential danger. The problem is, I'm not sure I can actually define them. That's bad. It's sort of like, "well I can not tell you what I like in artistic paintings but I know what I like when I see it." It's a little hard to be able to communicate to family members what to be on the alert for if you find it hard to define it. Other than pointing out actual instances and I'd rather not have to do that if it can be avoided. Likewise the "sheep" behavior. Another one which we think we know what that means but actually defining the "symptoms" is not necessarily easy. I've not come up with a good description that's anything more than generalities.

    So, what's a good resource for better becoming familiar with the traits and clues?
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    Dan,

    CZ82 nut

  14. #43
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    I'm sure there are some good resources out there. But, in our PC society "realism" has been restricted. (Good SA means you need to "profile"!)

    The best thing I can tell you is "slow down". (Most people are just in to dang much of a hurry to have good SA.)

    Begin to take time to look around. Try to "COMPLETELY" take in everything in your surroundings. Look for the "out of place". There used to be a kids came called: "What doesn't belong?" That's essentially what you're trying to figure out.

    For Instance:
    • You go shopping and everyone around you is shopping. BUT, there is a strange car parked outside, engine running, driver and perhaps another person or two inside. But, nobody seems to be getting out to go shopping or coming from the store to get in to leave.
    • Or, you're in the check out line and a couple of people seem to standing around watching people check out. (But, they aren't shopping themselves.)
    • You're walking your dog down the street & see someone ahead of you seemingly waiting for you to get closer. You cross the street, they wait until you pass-by and cross the street to follow you.



    I did a write up a month or so ago; stating what I try to do. The write-up is rather long. But, it only takes a minute or two to implement a cushion of "SAFETY"

    I hope it will help:

    Next time, you may want to be aware, there are numerous incidents of small criminal groups working Walmart & other "shopping" center lots. They are mostly looking to snatch something from your cart or purse. Some are looking to do a quick strong arm robbery. As you are bent over trying, they'll sneak up behind you with a weapon to steal your wallet. (It happens daily all around this country!)

    Here's a few things I recommend:
    First: Be aware you can be a victim ANY time of the day or night!
    Second: Whenever you go to "public" places your SA should increase as soon as you pull into the parking & not decrease until you are safely in your vehicle & driving away.

    Most people are to interested in finding a good parking spot as soon as they pull into a parking lot. But, you need to take time to look around for vehicles on the "outer" perimeter. A lot of times this is where the BGs will sit & observe. (They're hunting for potential victims.)

    Next: Look at the entrances/exits. (Is anyone just hanging around?)
    Now: If you don't see anything that seems "nefarious" begin looking for a parking spot.

    The first thing you need to look for is the spot closest to the "exit" as possible. (Even if it means you need to drive around the lot two or three times, find a "close-up" is important!)

    Another thing to look for is a "pull through" spot; or a spot that you can easily back into. (This is not always possible because of the "traffic" lanes. But, if you can find a spot where it's safe to back your vehicle into & you can leave the pot without facing opposing traffic, I recommend doing so.)

    Once in the spot, take a little time to look around before getting out of your vehicle. (Be sure to look in ALL your mirrors, then check your blind spots.)

    When you get out look around again. (This will give you some idea where a potential attack could come from when you return to your car.)


    When you're walking into the store look around some more.
    • Does anyone seem to be hanging around or watching you more than they should?
    • Do you see any vehicles around the perimeter or in front of the store that have people inside them but, don't seem to be "coming" or "going"? (If so, make a mental note & look for them on your way out)



    Now we move to shopping-
    If you're just going to be grabbing one "SMALL" item you really don't need a cart. However, if you plan on buying anymore I suggest getting a cart; AND keeping possession of that cart. (At the very least until you're close enogh back to you vehicle to realize there are no possible threats.)

    If you are using a cart, keep the cart with you. (A cart does make a good shield; and can also make a good battering ram weapon.)

    While you shop continue to look around for people who seem to be wondering around; but, not really shopping.

    At check out begin looking for people that just seem to hanging around; but don't seem to waiting on anyone or anything in particular.

    Now let's exit the store-
    Take your time approaching the exit. (If you've had your SA up since your arrival you should notice if anyone seems to be "shadowing" you.)

    As you reach the doorway, STOP to take the time to look all around again. (Remember; what you observed coming in?)

    Is anyone hanging around the exits?
    Any suspicious vehicles?

    Next;
    If possible do NOT walk straight towards your vehicle. Instead start up another isle. Then, if you think someone may be following you can stop like you're looking for your vehicle to see if the person will pass you up & continue on. You will also have the choice to change direction & cut through. (This ability can help you decide if you are indeed being followed.)


    If you do suspect you're being sized up for victimization AND you took the time to find a good spot (close to the "EXIT") to park, you should be able to turn around & make your way back inside the store.

    If you aren't being followed be sure to look through car windows & between cars as you walk to your vehicle. Please, don't forget to observe what is going on on the adjacent parking isles. ( Remember! A BG could run up from another isle. So, be sure to look toward the next isle over & the next isle behind!)

    IMPORTANT:
    If there is a large van & SUV parked next to your car, take extra time to look through the windows for any potential BGs hiding inside!



    Now let's load our groceries & go home-
    Once you've made it safely to you car, please do not let your SA down just yet. (This is where bad things usually happen.)


    As you approach you car- (Hopefully, you are backed into the space. But, if not don't sweat it just adapt to your situation.)

    Look into your car windshield for any movement.
    Keeping your cart ahead of you as you walk beside your vehicle, look through the "front" side window, the the "back" side window. (Keeping the cart in front of you will allow you to "block" any attempt of a BG getting to you should one be hiding in your car.)

    Note: Whenever possible, load your items in your car from the "drivers" side.


    Once you see everything is all clear, unlock & "OPEN" your drivers door. (This helps place a barrier between you and a BG should one come around the front of your car.)

    Next; with the cart still ahead of you walk toward the back of your car.


    NOTE:
    If you're going to place groceries in the backseat, walk just far enough to give you enough room to open the backdoor & load your groceries. If, you are using your trunk or rear compartment, keep your drivers door open, walk behind your vehicle with the cart in front of you so it doesn't "block" your path to the safety of your car. (This will also help you "block" another avenue of attack.)

    Now, quickly load everything in your car. But, don't forget to look around every second or two.


    Once everything is loaded in your car, close your trunk, pull your cart behind you as you make your way back to the drivers door. Close the drivers & lock it if you have to walk very far to the cart return. Once back to your car, get in and IMMEDIATELY lock the doors! (Things can still go bad "IF" to much time is wasted before you crank up & drive away. So, DO NOT dally!)
    Spirit51 likes this.

  15. #44
    Member Array catt101's Avatar
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    Dan - You are right.. It can be hard to describe what "threat behavior" or "victim behavior" is. The way to learning these things is simple. OBSERVATION. Sit down, and watch. Learn about human behavior and body language. Then sit and watch some more.

    I had the (mis)fortune of working in a mall that had been taken over by the "gangsta" element. I spent a lot of time observing and interacting with these people. I learned a lot about human behavior, pack/mob mentality, and victimology by just watching.

    Watch how people move. See what catches their eye. See what does not catch their eye.
    Watch traffic patterns. Many a dollar is spent by malls, large stores, grocery stores just for controlling foot traffic and making you see what they want you to see. In the US we tend to stay on the right side of an aisle, just like we drive. It mucks up the works if someone goes down the left side, or backwards from the normal flow. Why are all the expensive brands of food at Eye level?? Why are expensive cereals marketed to children placed at the child's eye level? Because most people are "sheep". They will buy what gets put into their hands the easiest.
    Do some research on grocery store marketing and sales strategies, and you will see that nothing, and I mean NOTHING is placed on accident.



    It can be hard to describe these behaviors. Especially to a younger child. They don't/can't understand. however, as they get older, and they begin to see that the world is not always a pretty place and life is not always fair, they can begin to see these situations.

    Hope this helps you a little...

    Now, go grab a good pair of sunglasses and sit back, have a soda, and just watch!
    Spirit51 likes this.

  16. #45
    Member Array danwdooley's Avatar
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    Well I have been accused of having eyes in the back of my head. I have always tended to do some visual scanning around, and being something of a people watcher, the habit has let me make my best guess effort at "reading" people. I think over the course of my lifetime, I have learned to be a reasonable good read of people. Obviously that's not always going to be perfect but it's a high percentage of And I absolutely DO profile. I refuse to be intimidated by PC. If I see a group of young punk looking guys, I'm going to consider demographics. I grew up in the part of St. Louis where as it changed, well you know what I mean. The old adage "you can't judge a book by its cover" is so much crap. The cover reveals what's on the inside.

    I position myself so that I am not with my back to the door in restaurants or if I have no choice, I'm not shy about doing quick glances about and around me. As I said in my previous post. I know what I'm looking out for. Just not sure I could list it in concrete descriptive terms.
    Dan,

    CZ82 nut

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