Closest I've come to drawing on someone, somewhat wordy - Page 2

Closest I've come to drawing on someone, somewhat wordy

This is a discussion on Closest I've come to drawing on someone, somewhat wordy within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Glad all worked out for you and all went home! We have your post and what you faced then we have this story in this ...

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Thread: Closest I've come to drawing on someone, somewhat wordy

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Glad all worked out for you and all went home!

    We have your post and what you faced then we have this story in this post Officer successully DATD outside his home Both of you faced a life threatening situation I have to ask what is the difference in the two situations? Yes one is a knife and the other is a gun but you both are looking death in the face. What I see is training when you are staring at death you act you don't do "show and tell".

    At 15 feet with open knife in hand both you and your brother in law could be cut before you cleared leather by a good knife man. What I see at the pushing of the button and the knife springing opening most likely there would have been shots fired shortly thereafter. I'm sure there are those here who think I am a trigger happy SOB but give me a break I'm an old man who doesn't question what you have on your mind, I'll shoot. I've found over the years if it looks like a duck it usually is.

    I see you needing more training so you know just what you did face in that situation.

    Again glad it worked out and you went home
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    I would highly suggest you read up on the Tueller Drill., and yes may be important to know about it (there have been court cases where the defendant lost because they didn't "know" about it). The Tueller Drill stipulates that a person with a mele object like a knife is a lethal threat within 21' because of their action time versus your reaction time will still give them the (lethal) advantage. This is why you are getting responses about not drawing at 15 feet, it is too close for you to be able to guarantee your ability to react.

    Other than that, I think AZJD1968's post sums it up perfectly.
    The Tueller Drill doesn't stipulate anything, and carries no weight of law in any precedence I have ever seen.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    Glad all worked out for you and all went home!

    We have your post and what you faced then we have this story in this post Officer successully DATD outside his home Both of you faced a life threatening situation I have to ask what is the difference in the two situations? Yes one is a knife and the other is a gun but you both are looking death in the face. What I see is training when you are staring at death you act you don't do "show and tell".

    At 15 feet with open knife in hand both you and your brother in law could be cut before you cleared leather by a good knife man. What I see at the pushing of the button and the knife springing opening most likely there would have been shots fired shortly thereafter. I'm sure there are those here who think I am a trigger happy SOB but give me a break I'm an old man who doesn't question what you have on your mind, I'll shoot. I've found over the years if it looks like a duck it usually is.

    I see you needing more training so you know just what you did face in that situation.

    Again glad it worked out and you went home
    My lawyer told me it would cost me about 50 grand if I were to follow your advice and subsequently be charged with murder.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    The Tueller Drill doesn't stipulate anything, and carries no weight of law in any precedence I have ever seen.
    if you happen to shoot someone wielding a knife and introduce as evidence the findings of the tueller drill as a reason for taking the shot, to me it seems that using those findings could help your case, not hurt it

  5. #20
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    My lawyer told me it would cost me about 50 grand if I were to follow your advice and subsequently be charged with murder.
    not in FLA, or any other castle doctrine/SYG state, all you are obliged to do is articulate the fear of losing your life caused by a person coming at you with an exposed blade. here in FLA it is more than likely that in the situation these men faced, if they chose the option of shooting their attacker, that they wouldn't even be charged. Things may be different in your location but you need to remember the wide national scope of this forum before issuing statements like yours.

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    My lawyer told me it would cost me about 50 grand if I were to follow your advice and subsequently be charged with murder.
    Hope the saving of your 50 grand as you say doesn't cause you to BE murdered sometime.

    I live where I do because I don't think I would "subsequently be charged with murder" if I acted in a situation as posted in the OP.

    We each have to make your own choice when the time comes but just what is your life worth? You have already set your at less than 50 grand. When you face a threat you first have to survive to worry about the 50 grand. Had the BG attacked in the OP I wonder if either of them would have to worried about the DA. In this case he did not attack and it worked out but at 15 feet facing a knife I don't think I want to bet my life on his NOT attacking. But that is ME.

    With that I say Good Bye as we will most likely have to agree to disagree.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    if you happen to shoot someone wielding a knife and introduce as evidence the findings of the tueller drill as a reason for taking the shot, to me it seems that using those findings could help your case, not hurt it
    Again, if one gets charged with murder, the Tueller Drill and about $50k might get one off.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    Hope the saving of your 50 grand as you say doesn't cause you to BE murdered sometime.

    I live where I do because I don't think I would "subsequently be charged with murder" if I acted in a situation as posted in the OP.

    We each have to make your own choice when the time comes but just what is your life worth? You have already set your at less than 50 grand. When you face a threat you first have to survive to worry about the 50 grand. Had the BG attacked in the OP I wonder if either of them would have to worried about the DA. In this case he did not attack and it worked out but at 15 feet facing a knife I don't think I want to bet my life on his NOT attacking. But that is ME.

    With that I say Good Bye as we will most likely have to agree to disagree.
    At fifteen feet with my hand on the grip of my pistol and in a condition of alarm, the guy showing the knife is the one whose life is in the most danger.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    not in FLA, or any other castle doctrine/SYG state, all you are obliged to do is articulate the fear of losing your life caused by a person coming at you with an exposed blade. here in FLA it is more than likely that in the situation these men faced, if they chose the option of shooting their attacker, that they wouldn't even be charged. Things may be different in your location but you need to remember the wide national scope of this forum before issuing statements like yours.
    Florida and stand your ground seem to be a contradiction in terms at this point. Perhaps you have other examples? As for the scope of this board, and statements like mine, I am passing on legal advice which I paid for, given by a real lawyer with whom I have a face-to-face relationship.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    At fifteen feet with my hand on the grip of my pistol and in a condition of alarm, the guy showing the knife is the one whose life is in the most danger.
    And you have put the statement to a test and know for a fact you are right. It's not just a I think I can? I've seen guys with knifes I'd like to see you do it with using airsoft guns. Yep you may get a hit on them but they would open you up and spill your guts. Myself I would like to be able to go home after it's all over.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Florida and stand your ground seem to be a contradiction in terms at this point. Perhaps you have other examples? As for the scope of this board, and statements like mine, I am passing on legal advice which I paid for, given by a real lawyer with whom I have a face-to-face relationship.
    Time for a new lawyer. It would seem that he/she may not understand the full scope of SYG laws....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    The Tueller Drill doesn't stipulate anything, and carries no weight of law in any precedence I have ever seen.
    If you were involved in a self defense shooting, you were inside of 21 feet, and your attacker had a knife, your lawyer would be a complete fool if he didn't use the Tueller drill as a means to help justify your defense.
    It's not a "law", it's a concept that is widely accepted and taught by law enforcement and self defense instructors.
    I would try to find a another lawyer that knows a little about how to defend a self defense case.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    And you have put the statement to a test and know for a fact you are right. It's not just a I think I can? I've seen guys with knifes I'd like to see you do it with using airsoft guns. Yep you may get a hit on them but they would open you up and spill your guts. Myself I would like to be able to go home after it's all over.
    How long does it take you to draw and fire from an alarm state with your hand gripping your pistol?
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Time for a new lawyer. It would seem that he/she may not understand the full scope of SYG laws....
    Ohio doesn't have syg, but Florida does. What do you reckon the legal bills will be all the way around once Zimmerman is acquitted?
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    If you were involved in a self defense shooting, you were inside of 21 feet, and your attacker had a knife, your lawyer would be a complete fool if he didn't use the Tueller drill as a means to help justify your defense.
    It's not a "law", it's a concept that is widely accepted and taught by law enforcement and self defense instructors.
    I would try to find a another lawyer that knows a little about how to defend a self defense case.
    If you are an LEO, if you are drawing from an alert state from a retention holster, and if someone armed with a knife is coming at you full gallop with a knife, the Tueller Drill applies.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

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