Warning cues to danger. LEO video of pedestrian stop. - Page 2

Warning cues to danger. LEO video of pedestrian stop.

This is a discussion on Warning cues to danger. LEO video of pedestrian stop. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I good scenario for discussion. From the talking off screen, it sounded like the PO was trying to buy some time to get his weapon ...

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Thread: Warning cues to danger. LEO video of pedestrian stop.

  1. #16
    Member Array JoeFriday's Avatar
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    I good scenario for discussion. From the talking off screen, it sounded like the PO was trying to buy some time to get his weapon into action. Back in the day, my practice was to initially ask if the person had any weapons and give a basic pat down as early as possible in the interaction. I would never tell someone that I believe to be an ex-con that there might be a warrant for them unless they were handcuffed and searched.

    Flipping this around to a more self-defense orientation, if someone was upon you and attempting to draw a weapon, how would you buy time to get your weapon in play?

    I'll give my answer. If they were right on me, I would shove them as hard as I could while moving backwards and not in a straight line while drawing. In my mind, getting distance from the threat is the best course of action.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    One time when bullets were whizzing around my head at a scene we both dropped and rolled under the ambulance. Since we were not the targets...seemed to be the safest place to be. Since we both lived through it...I guess it was. What else could we do? Throw bandages at them? Blocked in by PD so driving out was not a option.

    After it was over we did put a sheet over the suspect for his ride to the morgue.
    nti06 likes this.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    I guess the saying "when seconds got the police are only minutes away" is true. In this case it took over 3 minutes for backup to arrive after the officer called "911". That is way being allowed a weapon to defend ones self if important.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
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  4. #19
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    That is one lucky cop!
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    If it wasn't stated elsewhere, the BG was an escapee from the 1/2 way house, convicted of bank robbery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    Our LEOs may have a long wait....that is why several on EMS listen to give assistance if needed. On and Off duty. Hubby went out about a month ago and assisted a Deputy. After all...we are on the same team in the long run. This is a small town and we have to watch and help our own when we can. Sometimes "stuff" happens and you have to deal with the resources you have.
    That's funny. I respect LEOs but I don't consider them "same team" any more than they do. I have lost count of the times when "friendly" LEOs have had no hesitancy in writing BS tickets to EMS providers both off and on duty, and behaved very rudely when they didn't get their way on scenes involving delaying transport to write tickets, demanding paperwork that is protected health information, insisting on moving traffic through crash scenes where EMS providers are walking and working, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    I guess the saying "when seconds got the police are only minutes away" is true. In this case it took over 3 minutes for backup to arrive after the officer called "911". That is way being allowed a weapon to defend ones self if important.
    In my neck o' the wood backup for LEO (and EMS) could be 20 minutes, or more if the closest Deputy is tied up. With the current budget crisis, cuts were suggested that would have forced the Sheriff to shut down the midnight shift entirely, relying on callbacks to answer emergencies.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    So easy to armchair QB this one. The fact is none of us were there. The LEO did his JOB and puts his life on the line to keep us safe. I am glad he shot the perp, would have been better for all of us if he had killed him.

    For any non-leo wanting to say "he should have done this or that", how bout you strap on a gun and a badge and put your life on the line before you earn the right to say one word.

    Glad the officer is ok, thanks for your service buddy!
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    If it wasn't stated elsewhere, the BG was an escapee from the 1/2 way house, convicted of bank robbery.



    That's funny. I respect LEOs but I don't consider them "same team" any more than they do. I have lost count of the times when "friendly" LEOs have had no hesitancy in writing BS tickets to EMS providers both off and on duty, and behaved very rudely when they didn't get their way on scenes involving delaying transport to write tickets, demanding paperwork that is protected health information, insisting on moving traffic through crash scenes where EMS providers are walking and working, etc.



    In my neck o' the wood backup for LEO (and EMS) could be 20 minutes, or more if the closest Deputy is tied up. With the current budget crisis, cuts were suggested that would have forced the Sheriff to shut down the midnight shift entirely, relying on callbacks to answer emergencies.
    I guess it depends on where you are and who you are dealing with. OUR LEOs don't do that kind of crap. Of course the Hubby being their Tactical Medic doesn't hurt either. We have had a couple that are not that friendly...but they don't seem to last long. It is common for them to help EMS also. Nice to have that kind of community work.

    But I have to say...when I worked in the Metro area...we didn't have that kind of problem either. The scene that involved medical was always ours ....if it concerned Law Enforcement...we always worked with them. There was NO fighting over scene control. I guess we were lucky to have that kind of cooperation.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  8. #23
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    Thats the same way it is with us Sprirt51 We have two different jobs to do, and we respect each other. The first thing we learn as rookies is "dont piss off the EMT's, they may save your life one day". That's pretty much the way it works around here and we have learned to listen to what they say.
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  9. #24
    Member Array gobbly's Avatar
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    I apologize in advance for going a little off topic, but the EMT/police discussion reminds me of a story.

    Growing up my good friend's dad was a former EMT. He had some pretty good stories, but one always stuck out to me. He was on a call, something violent. He was hunched over working on the bad guy who had been shot by their local LEO. At one point a relatively new officer came up and grabbed his shoulder. He instinctively whipped around and before the officer could react, had him pinned to the ground. He explained that in that line of work you never know what's going on, you don't know if the guy grabbing you is an accomplice of the perp or what, that he had several coworkers hospitalized because of a bad guy getting the jump on them while they were busy working to save a life.

    The officer was livid, threatened to press charges, and called in his superior to handle the paperwork. When his superior arrived and heard the story he immediately disciplined the officer for his actions. The experienced police knew the situation, and knew that you don't take chances in that line of work, be you an officer, or an emergency response. The risks are just too great to take chances, and once in a situation like that your training takes over. There certainly are police out there who understand that emergency response is often in the same situation as police, and should be treated as such.

    I always liked that story :)

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    I guess the saying "when seconds got the police are only minutes away" is true. In this case it took over 3 minutes for backup to arrive after the officer called "911". That is way being allowed a weapon to defend ones self if important.
    Agreed. The officer had a line straight to dispatch & he had a fair wait for backup. Those of us that may have to listen to "ring ring, 911 state your emergency " and then state the explanation have a distinct disadvantage. Likely the officer notified dispatch of his location and the fact that he was stopping someone and investigating something before he got out of the car. Automatic advantage to him.

    That being said, thank God the officers were not hurt and the BG ended up being the only one sustaining injuries. Were mistakes made, sure. Did it end up for the best, yes and that is what really matters. Is this a decent training video/learning experience, absolutely!

    Thank you for posting it.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
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  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Glad the officer wasn't hurt. Any idea if there is any more info on this particular case online?
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array GoBigOrange's Avatar
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    That would be absolutely terrifying. I cannot even begin to imagine how scary that must have been.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    I have one story about tangling with a LEO. One of the ambulance bays at a hospital was not built with any forethought.
    It was a tight fit under good conditions. Many LEOs didn't like having to park 30 feet away, so they started parking in front of the ambulance bay doors. Finally a sign was posted to tell them NOT to do that and they were told by their superiors. After that, they didn't, except for one overbearing new one. If this guy had not been on the Police Department, he would have been a good candidate for Gecko45.

    We bought in a critical patient and there he was...parked right in front. I put the ambulance in, but it took longer than it should have. When we passed off the patient, he was sitting at the desk hitting on a nurse who was doing her best to ignore him. I said to my partner, "Let's hurry up. I put a nasty scratch on that new patrol car parked in front of our bay." Said it just loud enough for him to hear. He jumped up and ran outside. Of course I didn't hit it.

    He came in fuming and screaming at me. I told him to call his Commander and make a complaint and he was stupid enough to do it. Commander came down. Told him that if I had called him and complained about this car being parked there...he would have a dent on his record, because they were getting sick of telling him that. Commander said I was trying to do him a favor and hopefully he learned this lesson. Then asked me if I wanted to file a complain against him. I said no. The guy never parked in front of the bay again. I didn't make a friend out of him, but sinceI had been on city payroll many years longer than him and all the other LEOs were my friends...didn't matter. For the two years he stayed I got the "stink eye" which I always met with a cheery Hello and smile. He didn't last long because HE didn't make any friends on his own department.

    I wondered after that which mall he went to work for.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I don't fault the Deputy in anything...... none at all. You have to read the situation and do what you think will work in that situation. He was taking a common approach.... being calm, keeping the guy talking, etc. It was when he went to get the guy to the front of the car and cuff him, that it went awry. I would have done it differently, but I'm not sure the end result would have been any different. Glad he came out on the good side of things.

    Here, if there's a warrant.... there's another officer there .... so when one goes to cuff them, etc..... the one officer is standing there with hand on gun ready to draw it out and fire if the person grabs for a gun, and ready to assist with physically taking them down if needed. That may not have been possible for that officer in this situation.

    Ironic part is, if he had left a half-way house.... he may have had to go back to prison for 3-6 mo's and then been back in the halfway house. Now..... attempted murder of a police officer, illegal possesion of a weapon, etc.... he'll be lucky if he ever sees the light of day outside of prison ever again.

    This video can serve the CC community a different purpose though... and a good one. It shows how someone can be nicely talking to you one second, and have other plans and react differently the next, and how things can occur in seconds.... and are you ready for that ? Are you always ready for that ? It does happen.

    A person may come up and talk to you, to assess whether they think they can rob you or not, your demeanor, etc. and then decide to pull a gun and put it in your face in a second. I've had that happen twice on the personal side. In both cases I sensed something wrong about the person and was ready for it...... and they were one's surprised.
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