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mythbuster 6/10 dont bring a knife to a gun fight

This is a discussion on mythbuster 6/10 dont bring a knife to a gun fight within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tcox4freedom (Depending solely on a concealed handgun to get you out of a situation where you SA has failed could be a ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    (Depending solely on a concealed handgun to get you out of a situation where you SA has failed could be a costly mistake.)

    -
    Then why bother carrying at all?


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Then why bother carrying at all?
    The gun is still an effective answer, but it may not be the first answer.

    If the threat materializes at in-your-face distances, you may have to go hands-on to create enough room to even draw your handgun or knife.

    S/A does fail. You simply cannot go through life without ever letting someone who you don't know get within 21 feet of you, and no one can stay switched on 24/7/365.

  3. #18
    cj
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    Senior Member Array cj's Avatar
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    I'll be curious to hear how this one goes. My first experience/demo of the drill, they didn't even tell us the name, just the concept. He then took a bet that he could tag someone before being 'shot', measured off the distance, and in the middle of the lecture lunged at the target. He claims, for the first time, he lost the bet as the poor kid got so scared that he backpedaled, tripped under the 'knife', and drew and fired from the ground. The instructor was still able to reach him before he could draw/fire, but unfortunately, the bet specified tagging with the knife.

    But overall, he had NO problem covering the distance in that short amount of time.

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Then why bother carrying at all?
    See Below-

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    The gun is still an effective answer, but it may not be the first answer.

    If the threat materializes at in-your-face distances, you may have to go hands-on to create enough room to even draw your handgun or knife.

    S/A does fail. You simply cannot go through life without ever letting someone who you don't know get within 21 feet of you, and no one can stay switched on 24/7/365.
    Thanks Scott

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Here is the Mythbusters shooting 1911's!

    Thanks for posting that video. I missed that episode! Now let's just hope the punk "ganstas" didn't see it! I want those idiots to continue to hold their guns sideways. Helps all us good guys if we are ever accosted by one of them.
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  6. #21
    Member Array swood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDE101 View Post
    Thanks for posting that video. I missed that episode! Now let's just hope the punk "ganstas" didn't see it! I want those idiots to continue to hold their guns sideways. Helps all us good guys if we are ever accosted by one of them.
    I can't believe that Adam was THAT much better of a shot than Jaime! That was the only real surprise in that episode. LOL.
    I love Mythbusters. I wish I could watch it more often.
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  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Should be interesting. I sometimes have a problem with their methods. They assume that if it doesn't work the way they have it set up, it won't work, period. I understand that they have limitations with the format of the show, cost etc., but a lot of times I am just sitting there thinking: "why aren't they trying it this way?"
    Walk softly ...

  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    Should be interesting. I sometimes have a problem with their methods. They assume that if it doesn't work the way they have it set up, it won't work, period. I understand that they have limitations with the format of the show, cost etc., but a lot of times I am just sitting there thinking: "why aren't they trying it this way?"
    I think a lot of that is just to fill in airtime or some producers creative licensing.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebass View Post
    I usually never watch Mythbusters but will for this episode...
    Likewise!

    -
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj View Post
    I'll be curious to hear how this one goes. My first experience/demo of the drill, they didn't even tell us the name, just the concept. He then took a bet that he could tag someone before being 'shot', measured off the distance, and in the middle of the lecture lunged at the target. He claims, for the first time, he lost the bet as the poor kid got so scared that he backpedaled, tripped under the 'knife', and drew and fired from the ground. The instructor was still able to reach him before he could draw/fire, but unfortunately, the bet specified tagging with the knife.

    But overall, he had NO problem covering the distance in that short amount of time.
    The kid had unintentionally discovered the truth of surviving such an encounter: get off the line of attack.

    Moving to any position on the clock, other than 6 or 12, will greatly increase your odds of overcoming an attack like this.
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  11. #26
    Member Array k6gixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldcurmudgeo View Post
    In the first place, the 21 ft. rule is BS.

    It will never work for civilians.

    It is a good rule for cops.

    Here is why.

    A cop gets a call that there is a nut case with a knife slashing people.

    He arrives on the scene and tells the guy with the knife to put it down. He has the 21 ft. rule in his mind and acts accordingly.

    Now in the case of you and me, we are walking down the street. A guy is approaching from the opposite direction and he looks just like most of the people on the street in that area.

    But he is different. When he is less than 6 ft. from you, he whips out his knife and charges.

    You don.t have a chance and the 21 ft. rule only made you blind to reality.

    Stop ad think about it. When are you going to use the 21 ft. rule? Challenge everyone you meet in the mall not to get within 21 ft.?

    Not likely.
    I disagree and we deal with it on an almost weekly basis to some extent. How many times have we all been out pumping gas and a vagrant approaches begging for money or food or money for a bus ticket? How many of them do you think have knives or other "weapons" on them? I personally don't let them get that close without a barrier between us ie car or trash can or pump
    Last edited by k6gixx; June 6th, 2012 at 02:35 AM. Reason: grammar
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  12. #27
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k6gixx View Post
    I disagree and we deal with it on an almost weekly basis to some extent. How many times have we all been out pumping gas and a vagrant approaches begging for money or food or money for a bus ticket? How many of them do you think have knives or other "weapons" on them? I personally don't let them get that close without a barrier between us ie car or trash can or pump
    On the other hand, there are many more situations in daily life where you have to let people who you don't know their true intentions get much closer than 21 ft.

    In line at the store?
    Passing on the sidewalk?

    Just a couple of examples.

    Not everyone who is up to no good will look like a vagrant, bum or outlaw biker.
    How many times have we all been out pumping gas and a vagrant approaches begging for money or food or money for a bus ticket?
    This has actually never happened to me.
    Last edited by ScottM; June 6th, 2012 at 08:30 AM.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDE101 View Post
    Thanks for posting that video. I missed that episode! Now let's just hope the punk "ganstas" didn't see it! I want those idiots to continue to hold their guns sideways. Helps all us good guys if we are ever accosted by one of them.
    They aren't all idiots and don't totally discount their methods. Some of them PRACTICE that way. I tried the "gansta" grip at the range and can be surprisingly accurate.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  14. #29
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    For the most part I agree with those that are saying the bad guy won't have his knife raised to attack 20+ feet away... He's gonna wait until he's close in.

    That said, there may be a random nut that starts brandishing his weapon at distance... but he's probably not interested in money or robbing you, he wants to harm you for no reason at all...

    In my limited (third hand) experience: When my co worker was robbed at knife "point" the knife was held in a closed fist at belly level, pointed down (as if prepared for an overhead stabbing attack). Like this, only in front of the BG's belly:

    u10727039.jpg

    Not the way I would hold a knife if I were going to rob someone.

    And, it was within about 3 feet.

    Now, one on one, I would have feigned compliance. My EDC is just about above where my wallet would be... so pretending compliance, "reaching for the wallet" would give me a chance to draw.

    While moving at least backwards and maybe outside his weapon (left if he's a righty), left hand up (in a one handed "fence") apparent "startle response." I have a good chance of bringing to bear on the target.

    This is just one example.

    All of my possible responses are determined by my perceived "demeanor" of the BG. And require decisions that take place in the moment. I may even "comply," tossing a money clip with a few bills in it, and turning to run... giving me distance and time to prepare a more aggressive defense.

    All of these require practice with another person... the coworker (from above, who ended up beaten, stabbed twice, and left for dead by 4 BGs) and I have gone through several scenarios and both of us feel better able to handle a similar situation should it arise.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  15. #30
    Ex Member Array RayBar's Avatar
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    I saw a video on you tube where a BG took out two cops with a knife before they shot him. He lost,but he did some damage. Stiil rather have a gun though.

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