LEO breaks into your Home w/o warrant - Now you can shoot them! - Page 3

LEO breaks into your Home w/o warrant - Now you can shoot them!

This is a discussion on LEO breaks into your Home w/o warrant - Now you can shoot them! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by TedBeau I'm still trying to figure out how your supposed to tell if it an illegal entry or not! Do you ask ...

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Thread: LEO breaks into your Home w/o warrant - Now you can shoot them!

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out how your supposed to tell if it an illegal entry or not! Do you ask for a warrent before you draw and fire? I don't think I would take a chance on firing on a bunch of police in uniform breaking down my door because I figure it's an illegal entry. If they are coming through the door armed I am going to comply with their commands. If they have the wrong house we can sort it out once their guns are no longer trained on me.
    I believe the intent of this law is to protect citizens from being charged when they do not know that it is the police who are doing the home invasion. If you are waken from a sound sleep in the middle of the night by your doors being kicked in and many men yelling and screaming you should not be charged with a crime for protecting yourself if you have done nothing to provoke the attack.

    Michael
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  2. #32
    Member Array mcgyver210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out how your supposed to tell if it an illegal entry or not! Do you ask for a warrent before you draw and fire? I don't think I would take a chance on firing on a bunch of police in uniform breaking down my door because I figure it's an illegal entry. If they are coming through the door armed I am going to comply with their commands. If they have the wrong house we can sort it out once their guns are no longer trained on me.
    Not to long ago a house in my area was invaded by men in full tactical gear & the occupants didn't resist at all or even go to a safe room because they assumed they were Police. They weren't Police & the way I remember it there were injuries. So will I assume anyone is Police at wrong address if they are trying to break in? NO NO NO I wont.

    As for me being murdered for no reason by their mistake in my home that might happen but I will not go down without a fight. Also a few have said you can't win but that is a very arrogant stance since many people now days have home defense in place, reinforced security & even safe rooms. Oh & has anyone noticed some of the arsenals people here have at the ready? Come-on we aren't all sitting ducks now days with so many seeing what has been happening with


    P.S. Lucky for me I live in an area with a smaller Police force & I know many of them including the Swat Guys which haven't made mistakes like this scenario we are talking about.

  3. #33
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    While I certainly agree there should be legal protections for homeowners who are unlucky enough to be on a receiving end of a misplaced no-knock "invasion", I doubt it would often play out in favor of the homeowner... that's just how things are.

    I live in a town where the CCW rate is now somewhere around 25% of the adult residents. The local LE is very supportive of 2A Rights and would certainly expect a significant percentage of residents to be armed in one way or another... hopefully exercising appropriate precautions should they need to kick in a door or two (for legitimate reasons of course).

    Should they find the need to pay an unannounced visit to my home it would probably not be a complete surprise as they would first encounter the photo-electric / magnetic mass sensors at the far end of the driveway, motion sensing lights and cameras covering the driveway and house entry points, pressure pads under the porch flooring, steel doors/frames and the flock of ducks that quacks up a storm when anyone enters "their" yard :)
    I've tried to sneak up on the house without tripping any alerts and even knowing where everything is I cannot. (and no, we're not really paranoid, we just value our privacy )
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Hypocritical mantra: 'I am all about protecting my family, so I'm gonna get into a shootout with known police and get them all killed. Because I'm all about protecting my family.'

    Even liberals don't have that bizarre a thought process...
    "People who take an Internet handle of a great warrior, are usually the first to go fetal when crunch time comes." - Me

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Once again... Not very often, but the police do make mistakes. Sometimes fatal ones. I had this same conversation with a few friends... Another retired cop put it this way. Do people run red lights on purpose? No they dont... sometimes they make a mistake. Could running a red light cause injury and loss of life? Of course! When a person get's caught running a red light do they want forgiveness?. Most do. Will they accept some constructive discretion on the part of the cop? I think anyone would. Why then are the police not afforded the same considerations? Is a person any less dead in a red light traffic accident than the person involved with a no knock gone wrong? Was either more preventable? What happens more often and is a bigger problem?

    I'm not justifying any mistaken wrong doing by the police... I'm just saying that the police are human and will make mistakes like anyone else. I'm saying the remdies for running a red light is in the courts as the remedy for police mistakes is in the courts. Not shooting it out with the police.
    Same consideration, seriously, are you for real? IT IS MY HOME. MY HOME. You have no rights in my home. No right to be there. No right to search it. No right to kick in my door unannounced. MY HOME. Police have to be held to a higher standard because they are entrusted with so much power. Consideration does not enter into it, and the comparision is crap. On the one hand the civilian made a mistake. On the other hand the paid professional made a huge mistake. Running a red light in no way is justification for breaking into the wrong house.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    As I see it this law is a knee jerk response to another law limiting a persons response what they believe is a police mistake.
    You need new glasses. This law was a direct result of the IN Supremes ruling that the good citizens of IN had NO 4A rights and that government officials could basically come and go in the citizens homes at will. At least one sheriff noted, with relief, that he could do whatever he wanted. The legislature responded and told the cops that their rights were not superior to those of a regular citizen.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Only a judge can issue a no knock provision into a warrant.
    Wrong again. The Patriot Act allows federal agents to sign their own warrants. This was what King George's army was doing that gave us the 4A. Now the 4A has been obviated and federal agents can do what King George's army used to do.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Once again... Not very often, but the police do make mistakes. Sometimes fatal ones. I had this same conversation with a few friends... Another retired cop put it this way. Do people run red lights on purpose? No they dont... sometimes they make a mistake. Could running a red light cause injury and loss of life? Of course! When a person get's caught running a red light do they want forgiveness?. Most do. Will they accept some constructive discretion on the part of the cop? I think anyone would. Why then are the police not afforded the same considerations? Is a person any less dead in a red light traffic accident than the person involved with a no knock gone wrong? Was either more preventable?
    Yes, one is a planned event, the other an accident. Clearly planned events could be easily prevented. Accidents can be reduced by paying more attention, but their eradication, while desirable, is not likely nor totally controllable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    What happens more often and is a bigger problem?
    I am not sure which happens more frequently, but the bigger problem is clearly the abrogation of one of the BOR - the 4A. Yes, if you are the dead guy, you are just as dead either way, but in the accident, it is largely luck of the draw. In the NKR, it is the result of a planned government operation that should likely never have been planned and was then carried out carelessly.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  9. #39
    Member Array ares338's Avatar
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    I hope it never happens to me because I have my .40 cal right beside me on the nightstand. They had better yell...COP...really loud and that may not be enough to cease aggression on my part.

  10. #40
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    Well once again this topic has morphed into one big "they better not come into my house" thread.

    You cannot combine the the topics.
    First officers serving a legal search warrant, issued by a judge, on the right house, be it yours or your neighbors, have every legal right to be there plain and simple. If you are the subject of an investigation leading to a search warrant YOUR HOME can and will be searched and evidence of a crime will be gathered as long as it is done within the scope of the law and you standing up yelling you can't be in MY HOUSE will not amount to a hill of beans.

    Just like standing on the side of the road argueing with the officer about a ticket is not the place and time neither is it the place and time to argue the legalities of a search warrant while they are standing in your living room.

    The second part of this debate is a totally different subject. Should officers make a mistake and hit the wrong house then yes they should be liable for their mistake and anything that happens but it is still a mistake but there is a big difference between the two and you cannot combine them.

    Laws like this have there pros and cons and I would hate to be the first one to be the test case. Many folks quote the stand your ground laws as protecting them from prosecution in their states in regards to a crime being committed against them but as we have seen these cases are no longer cut and dried they are being picked apart and any flaw is being jumped on.

    You will be damned either way the situation works out.
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    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  11. #41
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    You will be damned either way the situation works out.
    And probably dead too.
    I havenít heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I believe the intent of this law is to protect citizens from being charged when they do not know that it is the police who are doing the home invasion. If you are waken from a sound sleep in the middle of the night by your doors being kicked in and many men yelling and screaming you should not be charged with a crime for protecting yourself if you have done nothing to provoke the attack.

    Michael
    The law will mostly help no one is such a situation. One will have about .1% chance of surviving on the officers. One doesn't need to worry about being charged if they are dead.

    As someone mention its the no-knock warrants that are the problem. They should be outlawed but sadly never will be.

    A scary situation can arise when you have criminals breaking your door down yelling police, police, police.
    St Petersburg Home Invasion: "Police!, Police! Police!"
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
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  13. #43
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    If you know they are cops, you'd have to go for head shots. They'll be wearing vests.

    If you dont know they're cops and go for COM....you've lost the advantage and given them more time and reason to focus on you.

    If you know they are cops...would you still shoot?

    So....shooting cops breaking into house....bad idea if you can avoid it.


    For me, it wouldnt be any different from any other home invasion, my plan would remain the same...head for safe/bed room with cover, phones, ammo, guns. And with the same dilemma....will my dogs follow me instantly or go after the invaders? Likely not follow me....so their loss to either criminals or cops is very possible.

    If cops shoot my dogs because of a mistaken address....there will be public Hell to pay.
    Fortune favors the bold.

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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #44
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    There will always be bad guys posing as good guys whether it be a home invasion or some kind of scam to get your money, it is a simple fact of life because it works. The "good people" respect law and order or they still believe in the goodness of humanity while others are just plain greedy that is why these things work.

    No Knock Warrants have been and always will be a "necessary evil" in the law enforcement world. There are standards by which the judical officer must abide by before he issues such a warrant and there are standards by which LE must abide by when applying for the warrant and then there is the middle ground that is real life and is actually what happens. You can't eliminate them because a group of BG's use this technique just as you can't stop selling alcohol because a drunk driver kills someone. LE has a difficult job to do and sometimes that job means kicking a door on no knock warrant.

    As I stated before I don't want to be the test case for this new law and sure don't want to face a tactical team coming through the door.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  15. #45
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    This whole "no knock" is scary has hell. These days the BG's yell police when they are knocking on a door--am I suppose to just open the door because someone says "police"? It is like watching these COP shows where a group of legit cops with a warrant begin crashing in a door as they are yelling police how the heck am I suppose to know it is for real? They are in the house before anyone has even been shown any sort of warrant or papers. I understand the purpose when drugs can be flushed down the toilet but this method has some serious and deadly consequences. And what does our fearless king with no clothes have to say? Remember the (black) Harvard professor who objected to the legitimate concerns of a police officer who was called to the area? Our dear king said the "police acted stupidly". So much for knowing what you, as a law abiding citizen is suppose to do or accept in this asylum we call the US being run by its inmates.

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