LEO breaks into your Home w/o warrant - Now you can shoot them!

This is a discussion on LEO breaks into your Home w/o warrant - Now you can shoot them! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by BugDude You're right, it is a no win situation regardless of the circumstances. Either they put you down in your own home ...

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Thread: LEO breaks into your Home w/o warrant - Now you can shoot them!

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    You're right, it is a no win situation regardless of the circumstances. Either they put you down in your own home or you go down in court. Hindsight is always 20/20 and a DA will alanyze and criticize whatever you did after the fact. Unfortunately, BG count on this reality and choose to imitate counting on your hesitation. So, if it really is the police, you lose one way or the other. If it is BG imitating police and you hesitate, you lose. Pretty crappy situation for the honest joe sitting at home legally minding his own business.

    That's what I'm talking about.
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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaperman357 View Post
    I'm former LE I promise I'll always fight back no matter what against anyone but I promise anyone who fires on a group of LEO's will 100% definitely end up dying of acute lead poisoning very quickly.
    Do you even see the problem civilians have? One is a law abiding citizen...people break in screaming "Police!", but they aren't. They are BG and leaving you and yours alive is not on their menu. How can we tell the difference?

    What is the answer. It sucks to be us?

    So all the care and attention to self defense my family has done means nothing?

    Carrying my weapon around, even in my house is for naught?

    What would you do if it were you as the resident? Honestly.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  4. #63
    Member Array Reaperman357's Avatar
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    I've already said I'd fight but I would lose and so would you and I don't suggest it.Also I like you Spirit I'm sorry to say something you don't like but I just won't have bad advice on my conscious if you fight the law it will win always every time go down swinging if you want I will but know ahead of time you are about to die.
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  5. #64
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I would never knowingly fire on someone that I knew or truly believed to be police. Never. A group of people bust in your door screaming, in that split second of reaction time it has to register what's happening, process, and react. It is hard on telling what anyone would do. The case in St. Pete last week is not far from my golf buddy's house. If I were running an illegal industry in my home or otherwise a law breaking person, I'd have good reason to believe that it was the police busting in my door. I'm a middle aged mild mannered financial executive with a wife, 2 small kids, and some cats living in a gated community with security patrol 24/7. No one has any reason busting in my door unless they mean me or my family harm.
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    Gosh what a mess this is. Can't choose sides on this one, no one wins. Our justice system was crafted to favor the innocent, and protect them at the expense of letting a few bad guys go. This has changed. I don't care what the reasoning is, no knock warrants should never be used in this country. That would end all this crap. Catch the BGs somewhere else, where they can be id'ed and no mistakes in addresses in the middle of the night. This may not be the easiest method for the LEOS, but it would be safer for them and for us. The FBI debacle in Florida is a prime example. Deaths on both sides, but no innocent victims were harmed. For lack of planning some very fine FBI agents lost their lives. Honest citizens of this country should not be subject to invasions of their homes by the Police whose sworn duty is to protect them. I place the blame for most of this on the judges of the Supreme Court for allowing this happen.

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    If I'm reading this correctly ...

    Since at least 2006 people in Indiana have been justified in the use the use of force against another if one has a "reasonable belief of imminent use of unlawful force," including the use of force up to and including deadly force in the case of a forcible felony, and including force up to and including deadly force in order to "terminate the other person's home or occupied vehicle. (Indiana IC 35-41-3-2.)

    Looks to me as though the new lingo doesn't enhance the legal authority of the people to use reasonable force if under the reasonable belief it's necessary to halt unlawful entry or a forcible felony upon a person in one's home or vehicle. Rather, it seems simply to add additional "public servant" lingo, not altering the basic right to defend one's home against unlawful entry and forcible felony. Nobody ever had a right to forcibly fight lawful entry by law enforcement; nobody does now, after passage of these changes in March.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    If I'm reading this correctly ...

    Since at least 2006 people in Indiana have been justified in the use the use of force against another if one has a "reasonable belief of imminent use of unlawful force," including the use of force up to and including deadly force in the case of a forcible felony, and including force up to and including deadly force in order to "terminate the other person's home or occupied vehicle. (Indiana IC 35-41-3-2.)

    Looks to me as though the new lingo doesn't enhance the legal authority of the people to use reasonable force if under the reasonable belief it's necessary to halt unlawful entry or a forcible felony upon a person in one's home or vehicle. Rather, it seems simply to add additional "public servant" lingo, not altering the basic right to defend one's home against unlawful entry and forcible felony. Nobody ever had a right to forcibly fight lawful entry by law enforcement; nobody does now, after passage of these changes in March.
    True, but you are forgetting about last year's IN Supreme Court ruling.
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  9. #68
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    True, but you are forgetting about last year's IN Supreme Court ruling.
    Reference, citation??
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Reference, citation??
    Here is one article. Do a search and you will find several. The Indiana Supreme Court Guts the Fourth Amendment | FrontPage Magazine
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

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  11. #70
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaperman357 View Post
    I've already said I'd fight but I would lose and so would you and I don't suggest it.Also I like you Spirit I'm sorry to say something you don't like but I just won't have bad advice on my conscious if you fight the law it will win always every time go down swinging if you want I will but know ahead of time you are about to die.
    I know I would lose if it is LEO, as I have stated in other posts on this thread, BUT how do we know the difference?

    What do we do? Just sit like sheep when someone yells "Police"? What do we do when it isn't? HOW DO WE KNOW THE DIFFERENCE? I am not a law breaker...if I were a police visit wouldn't be unexpected, but I do obey the law and don't expect police visit....knocking down my door.
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  12. #71
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Reaperman,

    I know the deputies here....they know us....they are our friends so I don't see this happening from them. I just don't know what Law Enforcement expects when bad guys are using the Police label to do their nasty business. So I guess I don't need any advice from you....because you don't have any answers. I think "no knock" warrants are a huge mistake.
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    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  13. #72
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    I think "no knock" warrants are a huge mistake.
    Agreed!!!! Due to the fact that a wrong address can be on the warrant or the officers misread the address and the outcome can be fatal to law abiding citizens.
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    Due to the fact that a wrong address can be on the warrant or the officers misread the address and the outcome can be fatal to law abiding citizens.

    Please, Please, Please quit combining all this into one subject it is not.

    A NO KNOCK warrant has nothing to do with a wrong address or misreading an address. If the address is wrong or read wrong it does not make any difference if it is a knock and announce, no knock or serving a subpeona it is a mistake. A warrant issued by a judge after following legal procedures, served on the correct address or person is legal.

    The number of warrants served on the wrong address or reading the wrong address is tiny compared to the number of total warrants served. Yes it is a no win situation all the way around and there is no right answer. As I have stated before no knock warrants are a needed legal tool. The difference between a no knock and a knock and annouce warrant is very small so with either one you would only have seconds to make the decision as to what to do.
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  15. #74
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Due to the fact that a wrong address can be on the warrant or the officers misread the address and the outcome can be fatal to law abiding citizens.

    Please, Please, Please quit combining all this into one subject it is not.

    A NO KNOCK warrant has nothing to do with a wrong address or misreading an address. If the address is wrong or read wrong it does not make any difference if it is a knock and announce, no knock or serving a subpeona it is a mistake. A warrant issued by a judge after following legal procedures, served on the correct address or person is legal.

    The number of warrants served on the wrong address or reading the wrong address is tiny compared to the number of total warrants served. Yes it is a no win situation all the way around and there is no right answer. As I have stated before no knock warrants are a needed legal tool. The difference between a no knock and a knock and annouce warrant is very small so with either one you would only have seconds to make the decision as to what to do.
    There IS a difference. If a officer knocks on my door....I answer and know who he is and comply. If they break down my door, in the middle of the night, wearing masks and black ninja suits yelling "Police", shooting my basset hound then they MIGHT be actual LEO OR they might be bad guys invading my home. How am I, as a law abiding citizen, know the difference? If I defend my home, thinking they are bad guys, I get wasted by the police.....if I lay down on the floor and they are bad guys....I am dead. Either way I LOSE. Does this seem fair for the citizen who follows the letter of the law?
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    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  16. #75
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    As far as mistakes or wrong addresses....it happens several times a year. I read about them in the news. So please don't try to feed me that line.
    mcgyver210 likes this.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

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