LEO breaks into your Home w/o warrant - Now you can shoot them!

This is a discussion on LEO breaks into your Home w/o warrant - Now you can shoot them! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Another point some folks dont get is this... When making an entry be it a controlled, or a dynamic... The suprise, speed and violence of ...

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  1. #106
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Another point some folks dont get is this... When making an entry be it a controlled, or a dynamic... The suprise, speed and violence of action are actually designed to protect the subjects within the premis.

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  3. #107
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Since when is possession of a pound of sugar illegal? Did Michelle already get that one through another BO executive order? I know Congress did not pass it. Or are you in NYC and Bloomberg actually got this one through?
    I went with a relatable. I figured most members here would have more experience with spilled sugar than heroin or cocaine.
    But who knows, maybe it was a psychic freudian slip!
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  4. #108
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    No knock is wrong, wrong and wrong.

    * Why not error on the safe side with going back to not having no knock warrants

    * If the criminal evades the police with a search/arrest warrant there will always be another day to get them

    * Under the "new" justice system in America many criminals walk before the fingerprint ink is try of they "plea bargain" the charges way down

    * No knock warrants can/have been extremely hazardous to law abiding citizens -- that is why they are wrong (the fact that such incidents are not a common occurrence is an excuse and not a good enough reason not to do away with them)

    Many foreign countries use what you can call no knock by busting into someone's residence for various reasons. If I am not mistaken didn't the British use that prior/during the revolution. And no, no knock in America is really no different in saying that when it happens we have legal recourse to deal with it.
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  5. #109
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    Well Crowman guess we will have to agree to disagree.

    By your standards since the criminals are out before the ink dries and plea bargain anyway lets just save all the money and not arrest them to begin with. It's ok though the police will catch them another day maybe before they break into another house, rape another woman or kill some kid for his tennis shoes.

    You just sit there on your couch, behind your locked door and all will be ok with the world.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  6. #110
    Member Array mcgyver210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Well Crowman guess we will have to agree to disagree.

    By your standards since the criminals are out before the ink dries and plea bargain anyway lets just save all the money and not arrest them to begin with. It's ok though the police will catch them another day maybe before they break into another house, rape another woman or kill some kid for his tennis shoes.

    You just sit there on your couch, behind your locked door and all will be ok with the world.
    Crowman is correct unfortunately.

    By your standards it is OK for Law Enforcement to commit Sanctioned Extreme Violent Beatings/MURDERs as long as they are trying to catch a Bad Guy after which they can say OOPs we might have went too far but reast assured there will be an Internal Investigation that says the victim shouldn't have resisted the LEOs & they would only be traumatized instead of severely injured or DEAD.

    What is worse seriously, being beaten or murdered is the same no matter which side does it? Only real difference is one side doesn't make as many excuses.

    Home Invasions are a tool along with many others supposedly in the name of safety that are abused frequently especially with the militarization of local & state Law enforcement.

  7. #111
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Let me see if I can get this straight.

    Before no knock was allowed criminals ran loose.

    Now that there is no knock the criminals are still running loose.

    I guess a good question is could the criminals that were apprehended with no knock still be apprehended if no knock did not exist. My guess is yes since law enforcement apprehended criminals for years without no knocks.

    As far as drug dealers flushing the evidence I think the possible saving of even one law abiding citizen being beaten/killed accidental invasion by law enforcement due to wrong address far outweighs busting the dealers.
    Chevy-SS likes this.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  8. #112
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    As stated we will just have to agree to disagree. You say you are correct and I say you are not so it is simply tit for tat.

    You continue to morph wrong addresses, home invasions and no knock warrants to satisfy your comments, so I won't confuse you with facts your mind is made up. No Knock warrants when correctly applied for and executed are a part of the LE and legal system and have been and will be around for a long time to come and I doubt seriously if either one of your opinions will change that so continue to rant and rave about how wrong they are and just think while you are posting somewhere a No Knock warrant is being served right now.

    Have a wonderful day
    Secret Spuk likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    No Knock warrants ... are a part of the LE and legal system and have been and will be around for a long time to come and I doubt seriously if either one of your opinions will change that
    This is correct. It will take an event like a NKR on a member of Congress (bad address) where he and his family are pulled out on the lawn and held at gunpoint while their house is searched. The cop that is holding them gets an itchy finger and blows the head off the Congressman's daughter. The internal investigation will exonerate the cop. This type of event (which has happened, just not to a Congressman) is what it will take to restore the 4A.
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  10. #114
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    Well ks I guess the scenario could happen. Lets see member of congress, wrong address, ND kills a child I am sure someone can figure the statistics on that there must be a formula somewhere. Until then I guess we have to live with the laws that are in place.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  11. #115
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Yes but Chevy-SS spoke of this incredible scale like it was a big number. Out of one hundred twenty five million homes and over three hundred million population how many of anything in a single year does it take to be "this incredible scale"? .....

    By "incredible scale" I am referring to the numbers of annual raids, reported to be 70,000 to 80,000. If that's not an "incredible" number, then what is?

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  12. #116
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    ........ Until then I guess we have to live with the laws that are in place.

    We may have to "live with the laws that are in place" temporarily, but once enough people (like many on this forum) get thoroughly PO'd and involved, then our leaders will (hopefully) start to pay attention.
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

  13. #117
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    Chevy if the laws need to be changed then hopefully, someday, maybe, somewhere a politician will take notice but he would have to challenge and rewrite laws that have been on the books for decades and either way it would end up being political suicide which he probably would not want to do.

    I honestly do not know what it would take for "our leaders" to take notice. If they have not seen anything wrong with it by now I really don't think they will.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #118
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    By "incredible scale" I am referring to the numbers of annual raids, reported to be 70,000 to 80,000. If that's not an "incredible" number, then what is?

    -
    To put it in perspective in 1780 the population of the United States was 2.78 million. Adjusted for population,(scale) that would be a total of about two warrants per day being served in all of the thirteen states. Do you really think the founding fathers would have objected to that?
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  15. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    To put it in perspective in 1780 the population of the United States was 2.78 million. Adjusted for population,(scale) that would be a total of about two warrants per day being served in all of the thirteen states. Do you really think the founding fathers would have objected to that?
    You don't get it. The numbers aren't important. The principle is.
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  16. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Well ks I guess the scenario could happen. Lets see member of congress, wrong address, ND kills a child I am sure someone can figure the statistics on that there must be a formula somewhere. Until then I guess we have to live with the laws that are in place.
    Not that I think this is a better alternative but what if the scenario/statistic was only LEOs dieing because citizens killed them in self defense successfully by being better prepared for any invasion by anyone. This sounds like a far fetched fantasy since so many feel you can't win against an Out of Control Government that could care less about the rights granted by the forefathers. History of this country & others tells a story that you can only push people that are not violent so far then there will be a consequence to pay by the oppressors.

    History is starting to repeat itself again. Mark my words if it doesn't change it will be the people against the Government & its agents. Other countries have been fighting their Governments for many years for less.
    Crowman likes this.

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