This could have been bad.

This could have been bad.

This is a discussion on This could have been bad. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Howdy all!!! First off, I am writing this from my cell phone. Please excuse any error in my post from "fat-fingering"!!! I am currently in ...

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Thread: This could have been bad.

  1. #1
    Member Array catt101's Avatar
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    This could have been bad.

    Howdy all!!!
    First off, I am writing this from my cell phone. Please excuse any error in my post from "fat-fingering"!!!
    I am currently in the great metropolis of Blanding, Utah.

    This happened to me on Monday...
    Some of you may have seen my posts on traveling on the Indian Reservations. I decided that I would have to lock up
    My weapons while there to avoid issues. On Monday, I left Farmington. NM and headed towards Monument Valley (Navajo Nation) with my 11 yo son.
    Upon getting to Kayenta, we stopped at the McDonalds. Got our stuff, and headed out to the truck.
    Walking through the lot, I saw a Indian man and woman also walking perpendicular to us, but well back ( 20-25 feet) from truck. I made eye contact with the woman briefly. Just enough to know she had been seen. Casual glance.
    Did not see a threat from them.
    Ok. Get to the truck, unlock door with remote, son gets in passenger back seat closes door.
    I open my door, and get one foot And my butt on seat. Turn to grab door handle, and there is the Indian woman.
    Blocking me in my truck with her hand on my door!!!!
    She proceeds to ask me for money. I told her "no". She was polite about my rejection, and said OK and left without issue.
    Situation essentially averted.
    But, how she closed that space in less than 25 seconds and as quietly as she did was shocking!!!
    I am HIGHLY situTionally aware. And I did not see this one coming.
    My husband says that it sounds like this pair were professionals. They executex this so fast and so slick.

    But, here I am... Female, traveling with a boy, on Navajo lands...and involuntarily unarmed.
    Ain't that some sh*t?!?!?!
    Nothing like having the deck stacked against you

    But the story does not end there.

    Not 2 minutes later, while getting over that shock, and putting seat.belts on, etc...
    Another Indian man walks right up to my drivers side window ( closed) and tries to sell me DVDs
    "So I can get some gas."!!!!
    I waved him off, and got the hell out of there.

    So.. To summarize, The first three people I talked to on the Reservation are a McDs employee ( no explanation needed there...) and two beggars!!!!

    What could I have done??? I am not normally a knife carrier, but I am rethinking that.
    Luckily this ended well. But I was really shocked by this. I even apologized to my son for not doing my "job" Of protecting us correctly. ( I dont mean drawing my weapon, I mean being aware of a possible threat.)

    I dont want to get into the whole Indian Nation/culture/pride/welfare state etc. debate. That is not what this is about.

    But, what options/choices did I have???
    It seems as if the Indians know we "whites" can't touch them. I have been hit up no less than 5 times these past days.
    Kinda like criminals know that a gunbuster sign means easy targets.

    So, how should I protect myself???

    (note: I did draw the line when we camped outside of Momument Valley last night.
    Darned tootin' I had the LC9 in our tent.)

    Thanks for being patient and reading this. I will check in and read responses as I can.
    Phone service is almost reduced to tin cans and string in the areas we are At!

    Out of Indian lands now. Headed to Canyonlands and Arches National Parks tomorrow.

    Thanks again!!!


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Wow. I wish I could think of more except be sure and keep on your toes. I hope the guys have some ideas. I will be checking back to see what they say. I am interested too. Sometimes, we women are at a disadvantage without our ability to defend ourselves and our family without our weapons. I do carry pepper spray also...and a knife in my purse.
    Hubby got me a really nice pepper spray I can carry easily in my hand when walking out. I will send him here when he gets off duty in a couple of days. My knife is a spyderco (I think I misspelled that) and even though it is not a "switchblade" I have gotten so I can open it very quickly one handed. Stay safe....stay alert.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Seems that they were more beggers than muggers/criminals. Since there are issues with having a weapon (at the ready) on reservations it cuts down on ones options. Under the circumstances it appears you did good in being aware of the beggers and you leaving the scene as soon as possible. Many tourists just ramble to their vehicles oblivious to their surroundings.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  4. #4
    Member Array tolduonce's Avatar
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    I know that feeling. You think you're on top of your game and then, this. Something similar happened to me once too. This guy caught me just as I was opening the car door in the parking lot. I won't go into details. Got some solace from the fact that my guy was a professional. He KNEW what he was doing and had likely practiced his creep-up a thousand times or more. It was his j-o-b. You know how when you're at work and you can perform some job functions with your eyes closed that others can't even do at all? Same thing. Usually direct eye contact is enough to keep people back, but I think the pro used that to her advantage. Who better to approach than someone who thought she wouldn't be approached? The fact that you had your son with you may have aided her too as your focus may have been divided, even if only a little. I know all this may not be helpful in future situations. Just my way of saying that all's well that ends well and don't beat yourself up over this.

  5. #5
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    Depending on his age, might be an opportunity to engage son re SA and watching momma's back. Glad both of you are Ok.
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catt101 View Post
    I made eye contact with the woman briefly. Just enough to know she had been seen. Casual glance.
    Did not see a threat from them.

    Ok. Get to the truck, unlock door with remote, son gets in passenger back seat closes door.
    I open my door, and get one foot And my butt on seat. Turn to grab door handle, and there is the Indian woman.
    Blocking me in my truck with her hand on my door!!!!

    So, how should I protect myself???
    When you've identified a potential situation nearby, don't think that a glance-and-ignore tactic will be sufficient. Continue to monitor, if only peripherally. 20ft from you is close enough to turn your world upside down very quickly, if they've got designs on you and yours. Keep them in your visual range. If you've identified anyone nearby who's appearing to monitor/track your movements, then do NOT let your attention waver and lose track of them. They were apparently waiting for exactly that.

    As for someone coming up to your car window ... Always have your windows up, doors locked. Once in the vehicle, minimize the time you're heads-down and not yet moving; continue to be aware of your surroundings. Of course, vehicles have blind spots, and there's only so much you can do.

    It seems as if the Indians know we "whites" can't touch them. I have been hit up no less than 5 times these past days.
    Kinda like criminals know that a gunbuster sign means easy targets.
    Now you're gettin' the idea. The ONLY people disarmed by disarmament laws are victims and potential victims. People who would take advantage of knowing a high proportion of law-abiding people are drawn to an area know full well the odds are in their favor, particularly if their approach is polished and/or they're armed. Caution, whenever, but particularly whenever transiting such places where your "representatives" have disarmed you. If you go disarmed in such places, about the only thing you can do to improve odds is to maintain high awareness and have more eyes monitoring (ie, go in larger groups, as in much of the rest of the animal kingdom).
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  7. #7
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    A knife is an option, but without training with an edged weapon, the results are going to be iffy. I would recommend a good OC spray to carry.

    Be safe and enjoy the trip.
    goldshellback and Spirit51 like this.
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  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Been to Monument Valley, Canyonlands and Arches two years in a row. I love it. I did not disarm!
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    Catt101, I am headed that way this weekend on my motorcycle. Never been in that part of Utah. Be sure to stop in Moab. On indian lands one has to be careful. You are a tourist and have money. You did good. Wife and I got attacked in NM during a Golden Aspen event on a reservation. They were drunk I won. Enjoy your trip.
    Blender likes this.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    Sneaky = OIT (Old Indian Trick) Before you go the knife route you really need to get some training and then develop the proper mind set for knife combat. Cold steel against flesh, eye to eye, can be very traumatizing for the unprepared.
    Spirit51 likes this.
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    A knife is an option, but without training with an edged weapon, the results are going to be iffy. I would recommend a good OC spray to carry.

    Be safe and enjoy the trip.
    ^^^^this

    A small canister for the purse/pocket and another for the trucks door pocket.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  12. #12
    Member Array brownsbacker's Avatar
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    Be careful hiding the Mace, my grandson found my daughters in her van and sprayed it all over him and her van. What a mess for her, he was red, splotchy and crying. The van fared better it only took a day to air out. LMAO.

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    duplicate post
    Arthritis sucks big-big
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    perception vs reality:

    I am HIGHLY situTionally aware. And I did not see this one coming.


    you now have to reevaluate that aspect of how you think you are vs what happened.

    SA is something that once up and running seldom needs rebooting.
    but after an incident such as that, id refresh.

    many, indeed --most of us over the years fall into patterns and may not even notice untill
    something (like this) happens. fortunatly this wake up call was benign.

    you did the 'check' and as ccw9mm points out--you did not follow up with the 'verify'

    ----------
    as for how does one protect them selves sans gun; much the same as with--cause your minds the weapon
    the guns a tool. no knife? twist apart a soda can , wrap one end with some cloth and--look at what you made in less than 30 seconds.
    almost everything you can touch, move and manupulate can be a weapon.
    but is SA is not on line, your time now is reaction based rather than action.

    thats the feeling you had when her hand was on your door.

    5 events--seems they are aggressive but not physical.
    id feel uncomfortable also.
    can of spray pam and a zippo type lighter would be within reach...
    Arthritis sucks big-big
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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