Shooting at Safeway, CCW intervenes. Would you?

This is a discussion on Shooting at Safeway, CCW intervenes. Would you? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by livewire9880 I'm not so sure that the permit was legitimate... the article doesn't suggest that the 'hero' got a look at it, ...

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Thread: Shooting at Safeway, CCW intervenes. Would you?

  1. #31
    Member Array partridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    I'm not so sure that the permit was legitimate... the article doesn't suggest that the 'hero' got a look at it, and the shooter ran off. in WA, our permits are just a piece of paper issued by the local PD, so it could have been anything that he was waving around.
    This part of the article suggests his permit was legitimate. Im sure the guy who intervened knows what the permit looks like.

    "He showed me a permit, which I’m pretty sure had a Harrah address on it," Schilperoort said.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by partridge View Post
    This part of the article suggests his permit was legitimate. Im sure the guy who intervened knows what the permit looks like.

    "He showed me a permit, which I’m pretty sure had a Harrah address on it," Schilperoort said.
    He could have just as easily gotten that from a stolen wallet, our permits don't have pictures on them. Shame he didn't catch the name instead of the town

    In the post you quoted, I meant to write "didn't get a good look at it".
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

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  4. #33
    Member Array partridge's Avatar
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    Ah. Ok.

    I still cant believe CCW permits in the US. Here we need one for each weapon.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by partridge View Post
    Ah. Ok.

    I still cant believe CCW permits in the US. Here we need one for each weapon.
    Here we have different laws in each state... in my home state we just have a "Concealed Pistol License" and can carry any firearm with it. In some states, you have to certify with each weapon or type of weapon you intend to carry. Other posters will have to clarify, but I believe some states require licenses to purchase firearms, or to register firearms after purchase. I really wish that the Supreme Court would force strict enforcement of the 2nd Amendment, we could be done with all this crud. But I doubt I'll get to see that in my lifetime.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I thought the comments from the guy who "intervened" were a bit dumb ...... he didn't know what was going on , nor did he know if the guy was acting in self-defense or not. He had NO clue. His "assessment" stage was drawing his gun and charging into the situation .... like Roy Rogers or the Lone Ranger. Bad Bad approach, and not a smart one.

    If you just defended yourself, and some guy jumps out of his car and is yelling and running toward you with a gun in their hand.... think you might be a bit apprehensive of their intentions ? I would be.

    I'm sure going to have a BIG CLUE what is really going on , before I go jumping into it. I also make sure there is water in the pool before I jump into it.

    In this case, it appears it was purely a shooting..... but, he didn't know that until "afterwards" ..... and that's a very bad time to be figuring that out.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    I thought the comments from the guy who "intervened" were a bit dumb ...... he didn't know what was going on , nor did he know if the guy was acting in self-defense or not. He had NO clue. His "assessment" stage was drawing his gun and charging into the situation .... like Roy Rogers or the Lone Ranger. Bad Bad approach, and not a smart one.

    If you just defended yourself, and some guy jumps out of his car and is yelling and running toward you with a gun in their hand.... think you might be a bit apprehensive of their intentions ? I would be.

    I'm sure going to have a BIG CLUE what is really going on , before I go jumping into it. I also make sure there is water in the pool before I jump into it.

    In this case, it appears it was purely a shooting..... but, he didn't know that until "afterwards" ..... and that's a very bad time to be figuring that out.
    Not to mention all anyone had heard at the time of the article was some obviously thin story about a cellphone... at a location where I have never failed to see both gangbangers and prostitutes. And not even the hot high-class prostitutes either... the cheap kind where if you're that hard up, you'd be better off going for the family dog O_O
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    He's lucky he didn't get himself shot in that momentary lapse.
    Yup. Viewed from the perspective of the shooter ... With just a bit more pluck, the new arrival's life could easily have ended right there, had the shooter simply extended his advantage of luring the newbie to complacency with platitudes about having a CHL. With a BG who's focused enough not to give a rip who's got "papers," it could have ended very differently.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    I would have called 911 and been a good witness. Not knowing the entire situation and it not being my loved ones or me....I do not believe I would have gotten evolved to the point this guy did. I will not be made to feel responsible for the victim's life either...so don't try. If he had been killed while I was calling 911....that's life and it would suck to be him. I am not LEO and I don't wear a cape. I am not a "sheepdog" or canine of any type (to call me one usually gets a ). I am not going to say anything bad about this man who did intervene, except glad he didn't have to shoot and he shouldn't have turned his attention away from the shooter for even a second. Other than that....it was his choice on what he did. Glad it worked out for him and the victim.
    As good an answer as I could have come up with. In SC we have the Alter Ego Rule that allows you to intervene in situations where you have a presumption that if you were the victim you would be in imminent danger of death or great bodily injury. The trouble with this, as commendable an idea as it is, is the fact, that in most situations where you come across a situation that has already begun, you cannot be sure what is going on. You can "presume", as a reasonable person, but your presumption can be very wrong. In this news article, the idea that this guy shows up and literally has no idea what has just happened and who is who and what is what should be red light on a firearm response; you call 911, be a witness and not think about your firearm---bottom line is that you are not in immediate danger of death or great bodily injury, which is the overriding reason to be drawing your firearm.
    Spirit51 likes this.

  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Don't see myself intervening in situation, except if I really thought he was going to shoot the guy on the ground I may have shouted not to shoot him again he was all ready down. My gun would still be in my holster at this point. If the shooter starts shooting at you after that you pretty well know his not a GG.

    Mostly it's 911 and being a witness.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    I think that translated as "I let him leave, but don't want to be quoted as saying in the paper"
    That may be, but my response is still the same. He's lucky he didn't get himself shot.
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  12. #41
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    I have got to chime in and let you know that just because they were people of darker skin tone, and in an area you deem less than desirable does not make them gang members. I understand that this is how the movies and news media wants you to think but lets use our own heads for once. Stereotypes are dangerous and divisive and serve no role in our society. There was a shooting this we know, anything other than that is purely speculation. I am not trying to call anyone a racist, this is just the second thread this week where peoples race seemed to be a large part of the post (something about carrying on Indian reservations).
    With that being said unless my loved ones or I are potentially in harms way my gun stays in its holster and my cell phone comes out. I reported an intoxicated driver yesterday, it seems like the responsible thing to do.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    ^ 308, good reminder. Criminals come in all shapes, sizes, colors, speeds and levels of lunacy. There's almost no rhyme or reason to it, beyond upbringing, circumstance, and time since the last Vicodin.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .3O8junkie View Post
    I have got to chime in and let you know that just because they were people of darker skin tone, and in an area you deem less than desirable does not make them gang members. I understand that this is how the movies and news media wants you to think but lets use our own heads for once. Stereotypes are dangerous and divisive and serve no role in our society. There was a shooting this we know, anything other than that is purely speculation. I am not trying to call anyone a racist, this is just the second thread this week where peoples race seemed to be a large part of the post (something about carrying on Indian reservations).
    With that being said unless my loved ones or I are potentially in harms way my gun stays in its holster and my cell phone comes out. I reported an intoxicated driver yesterday, it seems like the responsible thing to do.
    Actually until I got to your post I hadn't given any thought to race, color or creed.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    Actually until I got to your post I hadn't given any thought to race, color or creed.
    Yup. Profiling = determining if the person is acting criminally = fits the profile. Little else matters.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .3O8junkie View Post
    I have got to chime in and let you know that just because they were people of darker skin tone, and in an area you deem less than desirable does not make them gang members. I understand that this is how the movies and news media wants you to think but lets use our own heads for once. Stereotypes are dangerous and divisive and serve no role in our society. There was a shooting this we know, anything other than that is purely speculation. I am not trying to call anyone a racist, this is just the second thread this week where peoples race seemed to be a large part of the post (something about carrying on Indian reservations).
    With that being said unless my loved ones or I are potentially in harms way my gun stays in its holster and my cell phone comes out. I reported an intoxicated driver yesterday, it seems like the responsible thing to do.
    That's the most offensive thing I've ever seen on this forum, and you should be absolutely ashamed for even thinking it. When did anyone in this thread mention anything about race until you showed up? I don't know anything about the race (well, you mentioned color, not race I suppose) of anyone involved. What I did say is that there is a lot of gang activity in that area, and I've seen gang members in the store. What led me to that conclusion has nothing to do with their genetics, but the clothing they wear, the kinds of tattoos they have and the way they greet each other. And as far as the area goes, just looking at the volume and type of graffiti in the area is all the clue you need even without the cars and music, or groups of people on the steps of the houses. The fact that Yakima has a significant gang problem isn't news to anyone, nor is it rocket surgery to figure out who the gang members are as opposed to those who are simply unfortunate enough to live in the area.

    You assuming that "they were people of darker skin tone" is offensive to me. For that matter, what do you think my "skin tone" is?
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

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