Are you defending your property or your life? - Page 3

Are you defending your property or your life?

This is a discussion on Are you defending your property or your life? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 1911srule ... someone is burglarizing your detached garage or an outbuilding ... You decide to try to surprise and detain said BG ...

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 52
Like Tree47Likes

Thread: Are you defending your property or your life?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    28,328
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911srule View Post
    ... someone is burglarizing your detached garage or an outbuilding ... You decide to try to surprise and detain said BG for police. This is defense of property at this point, but said BG decides to attack you instead of complying . Now it is self defense situation.
    Yes, it is. Simple distinction for me: if an encounter turns into a threat against a person, I'll handle it as such.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.


  2. #32
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    45,482
    Texas has it correct...

    Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal Code describes deadly force as justified to prevent arson, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night, or to prevent a suspect from fleeing if the property owner "reasonably believes the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury."
    danwdooley and 1911srule like this.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array GhostMaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    4,168
    Having been a law enforcement officer at the local, state, and federal levels I can tell you jurisdictional laws vary greatly. Generally speaking, there is no justification for the use of deadly force to defend property only as per many prosecutors I have spoken with. The critical element that must be present in a justifiable shooting is the presence of an immediate threat to your life or the lives of others. I have heard of only one true case in which these to elements have blended, which saw an officer shooting an insane suspect who was trying to start a fire in a hospital. The shooting was ruled justifiable not only due to the fact it as occupied by staff and patients, but also because some of those patients could not have been moved for risk of placing them in danger. Although I am not an attorney, I do feel that in the situation you have pointed out that once the suspect employs a weapon and threatens to use it against you it ceases to become an issue of property defense and becomes one of self defense. ARCHER51 was, in my opinion, correct in ascerting that once the suspect brings the weapon into play it is the suspect that has escalated the situation and not you.

  4. #34
    Member Array hinkleid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    ID
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    All the "stuff" in my house is insured and replaceable---I am insured but NOT replaceable. In my house, at night, the bedroom door is locked and secured--someone enters my home and starts taking things I will not leave my bedroom to confront them--I do not wish to die over a lousy TV or a computer that I can replace. If they decide to try and come into my bedroom, they will die sure as I write this missive. I should note it is only my wife and I at home--no children or other family members in other parts of the home. "Presumption by a reasonable person of imminent death or great bodily injury" is the cornerstone of using your firearm. Someone asking you firmly for your wallet is very questionable after you kill them. PS: In SC, at night and only at night, if you see someone stealing or committing what appears to be a felony and you perform a "citizens arrest" on them, you can shoot them and kill them if they try to evade your arrest.
    Excellent point.

    I have a differing view because I have children in the home. If someone is in my home, for ANY reason, then that constitutes a threat. They are either running out, getting shot, or I am getting shot. I will never let anyone victimize me, or worse yet my children. Much different if you are on my property uninvited.
    Ed Brown Kobra 45
    Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II
    Glock 33

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    28,328
    Quote Originally Posted by hinkleid View Post
    I have a differing view because I have children in the home. If someone is in my home, for ANY reason, then that constitutes a threat.
    Well, with loved ones in various rooms, that's a position we'll all agree with, I'm sure. Inside the home = threat, when all aren't accounted for. Every day of the week.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    SurfCity
    Posts
    541
    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    It's not just your property you're defending! Sure, property can be replaced. But what about DIGNITY?
    Dignity should be way down the list on reasons to kill someone.
    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
    Ronald Reagan

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Yes, it is. Simple distinction for me: if an encounter turns into a threat against a person, I'll handle it as such.
    If a person brandishes a weapon while demanding you give him your wallet he is threatening you with harm. Not your wallet. Therefor you would be defending your life not your property.
    The media however would be quick to claim that you killed a person for five dollars and some credit cards.

    Michael
    atctimmy likes this.

  8. #38
    Member Array danwdooley's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Texas has it correct...

    Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal Code describes deadly force as justified to prevent arson, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night, or to prevent a suspect from fleeing if the property owner "reasonably believes the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury."
    Yep, glad I live in Texas. Hope I never have to resort to putting the law to practical use.
    Dan,

    CZ82 nut

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    28,328
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Yes, it is. Simple distinction for me: if an encounter turns into a threat against a person, I'll handle it as such.
    If a person brandishes a weapon while demanding you give him your wallet he is threatening you with harm. Not your wallet. Therefor you would be defending your life not your property.
    Of course. My comment was responding to a situation of interrupting a burgling of outbuildings, then having the criminal turn on me as I arrive and demand he stop/leave. Agreed, that a direct deadly threat on one's life to demand extortion is, at its core, a deadly threat on one's life that has nothing to do with the wallet per se.
    mprp likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #40
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Gastonville
    Posts
    6,754
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    In a perfect world one would be able to defend his property with lethal force if need be.

    If everyone grew up with concept that you could get your ass shot for stealing, the world would be a better place.

    We wouldn't have career felons doing it for a living with in this rotating door justice system of of ours.
    The reason that it will never happen is because of lawyers. It cuts into their bottom line. They make a living off of that stuff too.

    Giving up property to some meth headed punk just because you cant legally kill him goes against everything manly. Letting someone take something,anything, in your house because he is running out the door with your TV or whatever and you don't feel "threatened" and not shooting him like the vermin he is, is down right wrong.

    For the liberal intelligentsia among us that would argue the finer points of defending property with lethal force, take a look around you and see how well that is working.
    Oh thats right...it ain't.
    Boom! Nailed it! I would have no qualms shooting a man breaking into my car. A criminal's life has zero value to me. My car, on the other hand, was quite expensive (to me) and took 5 years to pay off.


    Too bad the law says I can't defend property with lethal force. I will obey the law.
    I havenít heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,044
    I know the laws are different everywhere but I would use deadly force only defending myself or family, not property. I wouldn't feel right personally using deadly force but that's not to say that I wouldn't defend the property and then the BG turned it into a situation where I had to defend myself. But for those places that you can legally defend property, so be it. Don't steal.
    Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME

    Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.

  12. #42
    Ex Member Array MNgunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    89
    In Minnesota we aren't allowed to defend property. Anybody can walk in and carry my 50 inch flat-screen out and there is nothing I can do sans calling 911.

    Me thinks stealing - or crime in general - ought not to be so easy and safe.

  13. #43
    Member Array NCMedic8617's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    126
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    Maybe we need to look at it this way......

    * An armed person (gun/knife) approaches you and demands your wallet/money that would be considered a threat to your life and not the property. That fact that he wants the wallet/money is secondary since they are armed.

    * You notice someone has broken into your garage and is hauling out your lawn mower or whatever (does not appear to be armed or not noticeable). This would be considered defending your property and not your life.
    This..... I'm not going to shoot someone who is breaking in the car.... Now if I'm in it and they are trying to get me out of it... That's different.

    Sent from this... Using that...

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,996
    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    It's not just your property you're defending! Sure, property can be replaced. But what about DIGNITY?
    Respectfully sir, I can only assume you have never taken a life to have such a cavalier attitude toward it.
    GhostMaker likes this.

  15. #45
    Member Array 1911srule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    373
    I wish when one applied for a carry permit, there would be an opportunity to attend a class on that specific states laws that covered ALL of this stuff. I'd support it being mandatory even. I have met so many people who have no clue when they can employ deadly force. We just had a Castle Doctrine passed here and it is scary how some think the rules for deadly force changed with it...
    RIP Jeff Cooper

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

defend your home law minnesota
,
defending you home with a gum
,
defending your life as a felon
,

defending your life laws

,
defending your property in texas
,

defending your property laws

,
defending your property laws in minnesota
,
defending your property mn
,
does a bullet left inside someone set off metal detectors
,
how to defend your land
,

laws defending your property

,
laws for defending my property
Click on a term to search for related topics.