McDonalds do nothing robbery - Page 2

McDonalds do nothing robbery

This is a discussion on McDonalds do nothing robbery within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by diver1102 My ccw instructor (county sheriff) gave us this senerio and it has got me thinking, is it ok to do nothing? ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diver1102 View Post
    My ccw instructor (county sheriff) gave us this senerio and it has got me thinking, is it ok to do nothing?

    Your sitting at McDonalds enjoying your bigmac and coke when a guy comes in and demands money. He is using the "I have a gun threat" Do you either A) let the money be taken (its mcdonalds a few hundred won't hurt their bottom line I promise) and simply call the police or B) intervien and start a shootout with inoocents including children that could be injured or killed.

    He said he would simply call it in, even as an off duty officer. I think his point 1)your ccw doesn't make you a cop, don't go around trying to be one. 2)you don't always have to draw and be very sure that when you do you've really used it as a last resort.

    Thoughts?
    No brainer... take cover and go over my plan in case it escalates, but I'm not going to be the one to escalate it.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danwdooley View Post
    Get up behind the guy and put your weapon to the back of his head and demand that he surrender. This ain't TV stuff. It's crime prevention. Prevent the crime and there will be less picking up the pieces after an emboldened amateur robber has just stepped up his game.
    Do you really think that making contact with your firearm against the BG is the best way to go? If the LEO or anyone else for that matter was going to intervene it certainly would not be at point of contact. It would be from a point of cover/concealment because in MCD's there is some of it, with loud verbal commands while you engaged the target. You can't get your gun taken away from you if you aren't in contact with the BG.

    BTW, LEO's are civilians as well. I would venture to say that most of the LEO's that I know would probably stop the BG right then and there. They all carry off duty and have a general disdain for scumbags.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    I am not batman, I will use my weapon in the gravest extreme. If you choose to be a voluntary crimefighter by all means go ahead.

    Do not shame me or criticize me if I choose to only protect myself and my loved ones.
    Yoda, I am, yes.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHYDAH View Post
    I think your friend has a very valid point. I carry to protect life, not property, and certainly not some corporation's property. If the robber had not shown a weapon and acted in a manner that could be interpreted as a physical threat to myself or others and that threat is about to become reality, I probably would just sit tight and observe. I wouldn't act in such a way that could escalate the situation into something out of control or draw attention to myself.

    There is another issue as well. Whether you really want to get involved even as a witness. I have had the misfortune of being a prime witness in a shooting case involving three victims. It can be a long drawn out process eating into your personal time. In my case, even though I could ID the shooter, and even ID the type and model of weapon he used, he still walked! It wasn't worth the effort.
    While I agree with most of everything you said, and I feel it's a shame that the guy you testified against walked, you also need to consider the possibiltiy of retaliation from the BG if he does get convicted.He could come looking for you after he serves his time, or he may have friends on the outside willing to do him a "favor". All that being said, if no one ever has the guts to stand up for justice then things are just going to keep getting worse. The next town south of me is always in the top 10 in the nation for violent crime per capita. The biggest problem the police have in solving crimes and breaking the cycle of shootings/retaliation shootings is "no one ever sees anything". The shooting can occur at noon on the busiest street in town and there will not be a single witness.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array tubadude's Avatar
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    Money is cheap. I'm sure every giant company is insured for this kind of stuff and just has a "hand it over" policy.

    I'll keep eating my cheeseburger and be a good witness.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHYDAH View Post
    I think your friend has a very valid point. I carry to protect life, not property, and certainly not some corporation's property. If the robber had not shown a weapon and acted in a manner that could be interpreted as a physical threat to myself or others and that threat is about to become reality, I probably would just sit tight and observe. I wouldn't act in such a way that could escalate the situation into something out of control or draw attention to myself.

    There is another issue as well. Whether you really want to get involved even as a witness. I have had the misfortune of being a prime witness in a shooting case involving three victims. It can be a long drawn out process eating into your personal time. In my case, even though I could ID the shooter, and even ID the type and model of weapon he used, he still walked! It wasn't worth the effort.
    Yea, totally agree, been there, done that. In addition to all the wasted hours of depositions, identifications, statements, court appearances, loss of employment income as a witness, etc. All your travel, gas, parking, etc. is on your dime. You wouldn't even get a free Big Mac from McCheapo.
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  7. #22
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    Unless the guy starts shooting people or looks like there's no doubt he will. Then imho definitely do NOTHING exception if your family is with you of course. If so get 'em out or at least to hard cover. Be a good witness.Be prepared to employ deadly force.Americans gotta stop watching and believing Hollywood's hero garbage...
    RIP Jeff Cooper

  8. #23
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    That happened to me. I was sitting in a McDonalds in Denver when it got robbed. The most scared person in the building was the one holding the gun. That's why I won't open carry, I he had seen a gun, I'm sure he would have freaked out. I would say your instructor is correct. I'm not going to be the one that turns the robbery into a gunfight. Now, if the bad guy starts shooting, or lays a finger on my wife...game over.

    The would be robber was caught within minutes and a few blocks of the store.

  9. #24
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    what does this say about the world today when we use McDonald's as a senario for self defense? sir; would you like a happy meal with that bag of cash?

  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Obviously, if he is robbing the store, he should be considered a threat, but as long as he focuses on the money and register and makes no signs of aggression towards the patrons(including me and my family), I would probably let him have the money. That is what insurrance is for. As your thread title suggests, sometimes the best protection for your family will be to do nothing. Well, not nothing, but whatever you can without drawing attention to yourself and family.
    Walk softly ...

  11. #26
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    This discussion has good points on both sides. There is no one size fits all answer. For those who might take immediate action by taking down the gunman. You are possibly putting your family in jeopardy financially. Are you prepared to mortgage your house, sell off your 401 or cash in your kids college fund to pay lawyers fees?
    You many in fact be endangering the well being of your family.

    Now for those who say wait until your life is directly threatened. You have just given up any possible advantage of surprise you might have had before the gunman turned his attention to you. Not wanting to escalate or put yourself in any greater danger has just put you in greater danger.

    Oh, and for those who say they would not take a life over property and money is property. Once the badguy threatens force it is no longer about property. He is threatening your life. You would not protect your life with force? Or if you believe that he is not threatening your life why give up your property. Just laugh at him and walk away.

    Choices,choices.

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  12. #27
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    If It's mcdonalds deal and I haven't seen a gun or he is threatening to shoot people that's fine I'll be a good witness,but if he demands my wallet it's gonna chang stuff,I have identification in my wallet that tells the pos where I live,I'm not a COP so I'm not going to arrest him,I'm gonna shoot his ass
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  13. #28
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diver1102 View Post
    My ccw instructor (county sheriff) gave us this senerio and it has got me thinking, is it ok to do nothing?

    Your sitting at McDonalds enjoying your bigmac and coke when a guy comes in and demands money. He is using the "I have a gun threat" Do you either A) let the money be taken (its mcdonalds a few hundred won't hurt their bottom line I promise) and simply call the police or B) intervien and start a shootout with inoocents including children that could be injured or killed.

    He said he would simply call it in, even as an off duty officer. I think his point 1)your ccw doesn't make you a cop, don't go around trying to be one. 2)you don't always have to draw and be very sure that when you do you've really used it as a last resort.

    Thoughts?
    First in bold: Yes, it is absolutely ok not to draw and shoot but that doesn't mean that you are doing nothing. If his bullets aren't flying yet and you don't feel threatened, can you be a good witness? Can you see if anyone's with him to drive he getaway car and get a plate number etc.? Have you seated yourself in a place where good cover, escape or a defensive position can be obtained if things do go south? So just because you're not shooting doesn't mean that you are doing nothing.

    You have to ask yourself, do you really want to draw and put yourself in that position when deep down you don't believe that anyone's life is at risk? You have no duty to engage. It's called "personal protection" not "protect and serve." If you feel that your life it threatened then by all means, defend yourself. But a weapon that is carried by those of us licensed to do so does not have to be used in the protection of others. That being said, the law does allow a firearm to be used to protect the lives of others in most cases but you need to remember that you are responsible for every bullet that comes out of that barrel.

    Second in bold is part of the answer to the first in bold and your instructor is on the money.
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  14. #29
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diver1102 View Post
    My ccw instructor (county sheriff) gave us this senerio and it has got me thinking, is it ok to do nothing?

    Your sitting at McDonalds enjoying your bigmac and coke when a guy comes in and demands money. He is using the "I have a gun threat" Do you either A) let the money be taken (its mcdonalds a few hundred won't hurt their bottom line I promise) and simply call the police or B) intervien and start a shootout with inoocents including children that could be injured or killed.

    He said he would simply call it in, even as an off duty officer. I think his point 1)your ccw doesn't make you a cop, don't go around trying to be one. 2)you don't always have to draw and be very sure that when you do you've really used it as a last resort.

    Thoughts?
    My thought (single, one only thought) is this:

    Find this book: In the Gravest Extreme : The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection By Massad Ayoob.
    You can get it through Books-a-million here for 12.95 + s&h

    Additional thoughts: (wow, I had more than one... whoda thunk it?)

    While you're waiting for it to ship, go to the local library and get a copy from them or through their inter-library loan program and read it a couple of times before you get your very own personal copy. The book will answer many many questions for you... It is somewhat dated in the selection of firearms, but all the firearms presented will suffice. Same with the ammo.

    Special note: If you did not get the Justice League handbook surreptitiously handed to you at YOUR CCW class, you have not been initiated into the League (sorry 'bout that).

    If upon graduating your class, you did not have to swear an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the US and/or your state of residence, you have not become a sworn officer of the government... Like a cop... or a sheriff, or even a dog catcher... ( sorry 'bout that, too... if that's what you were hoping).

    Hence, you are an ordinary citizen who now has the option to carry a gun... Good... no, GREAT, for you..! Use that right/privilege wisely and you will probably never get it out of it's holster except for cleanings and range trips...

    And, that is the goal.... to be able to return home to your tv, your wife, your kids... whichever and whatever... without having to defend yourself at any or every turn.

    Those are my thoughts... on this subject... Good luck to you... Stay safe and "carry on."
    ccw9mm and finnman1 like this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  15. #30
    Member Array YANG's Avatar
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    If my family is not in immediate threat, I don't need to ask for it. I will be a good witness and call it in.


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