McDonalds do nothing robbery

McDonalds do nothing robbery

This is a discussion on McDonalds do nothing robbery within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My ccw instructor (county sheriff) gave us this senerio and it has got me thinking, is it ok to do nothing? Your sitting at McDonalds ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array diver1102's Avatar
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    McDonalds do nothing robbery

    My ccw instructor (county sheriff) gave us this senerio and it has got me thinking, is it ok to do nothing?

    Your sitting at McDonalds enjoying your bigmac and coke when a guy comes in and demands money. He is using the "I have a gun threat" Do you either A) let the money be taken (its mcdonalds a few hundred won't hurt their bottom line I promise) and simply call the police or B) intervien and start a shootout with innocents including children that could be injured or killed.

    He said he would simply call it in, even as an off duty officer. I think his point 1)your ccw doesn't make you a cop, don't go around trying to be one. 2)you don't always have to draw and be very sure that when you do you've really used it as a last resort.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Unless there is a true threat to life or body I do nothing as long as he does not involve me. McD is insured for such things. If he tells me to do something (like get on the floor) or points the gun at me and demands money, he involved me and I will act accordingly.
    sixgun, PatAz, RichB70 and 12 others like this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Okemo's Avatar
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    At no point in this type of scenario would I consider drawing. The guy at this point appears to simply want money. Hell if he wants MY money he's going to get it with no fight from me. I don't carry enough at any given time to warrant risking my life.
    oldnfat, W9HDG, sensei2 and 3 others like this.
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    I refuse to go to McDonald's, so I wouldn't be in the situation. That aside, unless there is a direct to me or my family, call 911 and let the experts handle it.
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  5. #5
    Member Array WHYDAH's Avatar
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    I think your friend has a very valid point. I carry to protect life, not property, and certainly not some corporation's property. If the robber had not shown a weapon and acted in a manner that could be interpreted as a physical threat to myself or others and that threat is about to become reality, I probably would just sit tight and observe. I wouldn't act in such a way that could escalate the situation into something out of control or draw attention to myself.

    There is another issue as well. Whether you really want to get involved even as a witness. I have had the misfortune of being a prime witness in a shooting case involving three victims. It can be a long drawn out process eating into your personal time. In my case, even though I could ID the shooter, and even ID the type and model of weapon he used, he still walked! It wasn't worth the effort.
    tcox4freedom likes this.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Pretty cut & dried as far as I'm concerned. NOTHING makes you a LEO except...BEING an LEO. I'm not a cowboy, the cavalry or a Super Hero. I carry a handgun to protect myself & my family against life-threatening assault, with the option of providing aid to others depending on perceived circumstances. You said the felon used the "I have a gun threat" but you didn't say if anyone had SEEN the gun. I also don't know where I sitting in relation to the action and/or the exits. I don't know if I'm alone or have my grandchildren with me. I don't know if he's a screaming, tweaker maniac or a quiet, calculating career criminal. So there's a lot more details to the scenario before I can explain & justify my tactics & choices. If you're asking if I'll step-in to simply stop cash being taken from McDonalds, no. But if your asking if I'll step-in to stop a botched robbery that evolves into a death trap for me or others in the restaurant? Yep, I will.
    tcox4freedom and W9HDG like this.
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Let him have the mcBucks. If he starts shooting, that changes everything, put him down.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Agree with the above, let him have McD's money. If the situation changes, then deal with it as necessary.

    The scenario says he's playing the "I have a gun". Does he really, can you see it, or is it still a verbal threat? Not that it makes a difference from an SD perspective, but it could change how you respond.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array NH_Esau's Avatar
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    I'm not killing somebody over money or stuff. Philosophically, that's my line. In addition, in NH when it's just money/property the law dictates retreat as the first option.

    Dial 911 and leave the line open.

    If he starts shooting or threatening, tells us all to get on the ground or in a line, etc... everything changes.
    gejoslin and Brad426 like this.

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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    I do not know what your state's law has to say but in SC, not exactly a gun control state by any means, the law is very clear in its words. "Presumption of reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury". Someone robs a MAC---where was the imminent peril at that first instant? The law goes on to add that the imminent peril is "to himself or another person". Now the cashier in the MAC, who has a firearm pointed at them is the "other person". Does that now count for you using your firearm? I guess what I am saying is that the basic content of this thread has been asked many times and there is no simple answer. I would venture to say that in most cases these kind of robberies, whether a firearm is brandished or not, do not result in any deaths or bodily injuries. For the sake of money, it just seems to me that elevating the situation by bringing your firearm into play is not a preferred course of action.---Hey--to each his own.
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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    it counts to where you are and can I get off a shot without endangering others. if I am in line and he just pushes me out of the way I might but if I am in the dining area and I don't have a clear shot then no. your instructor is right in a way but what is to say that they/he will just leave with just the money. who is to say the next time he robs a quickie-mart and shoots the clerk or a customer. trust me when they get away with it once it will happen again

    Crime happens to 1% of the population so now you are part of that 1% and you did nothing so now the whole reason for carrying is pointless if all you are going to do is watch people be victimized..... You should have asked him..... Does that make you a sheep like the rest instead of a sheepdog?

    I don't have to wonder what that 71 year old man was thinking when those two punks robbed the internet cafe; he was thinking I am not going to be a victim today! it's easy to say it's not my job and walk away but then there is going to be that little voice in your head that says "I could have done something" over and over.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Circumstances drive everything. For myself, I carry to protect myself and my loved ones. I will certainly consider helping those in dire need nearby if it's clearly a "dire need" type situation. Merely having money given as a result of asking doesn't rise to that level, even if that person hands out a note or states lives will be threatened if demands aren't complied with. A violent attacker with a deadly weapon out and actively threatening lives, however, is something else entirely.
    tcox4freedom and Brad426 like this.
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  13. #13
    Ex Member Array oldrwizr's Avatar
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    We had a similar scenario on the written test I had to take for my CCP. If you see a gun or knife and the assailant is threatening anyone you can respond with deadly force if you feel like dealing with lawyers, LEO's, judges and juries. The law's theoretically on your side assuming it gets interpreted the same way you interpreted it. These scenarios don't always play out in court the way they actually went down and that's something to keep in mind. The person you thought you were saving might testify that he/she never really felt threatened. I wouldn't draw unless it became a Pulp Fiction situation.

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Something to consider: we often assume in these situations that it is the cashier or clerk that is targeted. A coworker of mine was at a McDonalds in a big name university town here in NC. He just sat down to eat and a guy walked up to the man sitting in the next booth, pulled out a gun and splattered the customer's brains. This case was a targeted murder, not robbery, but we can't always assume as a patron that we won't be the target. It was also another case of the magic barrier failing.

  15. #15
    Member Array danwdooley's Avatar
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    Perhaps I missed something implied in the original post. If an off-duty LEO is present he is only going to call it in and go about the business of finishing his BigMac? Does it seem like "law enforcement" is becoming more reactionary and less preventive?

    So the BG has his hand in his pocket and perhaps nothing seen in the way of a firearm. He may or may not have one, who knows. He robs the store hand in pocket and leaves. That was easy. So he goes down the street to another fast food joint, or perhaps a convenience store and pulls the same trick. This time the clerk inadvertently makes a move which spooks him and he shoots and kills the clerk.

    That's right. Let's just let 'em get away. It's only money and McDonalds is insured anyhow.

    I am not addressing you or I as civilian legal firearms license holders but if that is the duty of LE then we do have a breakdown in enforcement. Get up behind the guy and put your weapon to the back of his head and demand that he surrender. This ain't TV stuff. It's crime prevention. Prevent the crime and there will be less picking up the pieces after an emboldened amateur robber has just stepped up his game.
    W9HDG likes this.
    Dan,

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