Is a stray round/casualty ever acceptable?

This is a discussion on Is a stray round/casualty ever acceptable? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ask NYC Police Dept ... it seems the shooter @ the Empire State bldg only shot 1 (one ) person, and the other wounded are ...

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Thread: Is a stray round/casualty ever acceptable?

  1. #136
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Ask NYC Police Dept ... it seems the shooter @ the Empire State bldg only shot 1 (one ) person, and the other wounded are a result of the NYC police dept. They seem to think that was acceptable. They released a video of when they took him down (it's out there) , and he is never seen shooting at the NYC police. He pointed his gun in their direction, but didn't shoot.
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  3. #137
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    As for this case those officer need some range time.
    Agreed.

    Sort of.

    The average LEO shoots 50 or so rounds at a stationary target once a year (quarterly if they work for a good department). The average CCW, less than that.

    How exactly does that kind of 'training' ready one for the street?

  4. #138
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    You sure about that?

  5. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    Agreed.

    Sort of.

    The average LEO shoots 50 or so rounds at a stationary target once a year (quarterly if they work for a good department). The average CCW, less than that.

    How exactly does that kind of 'training' ready one for the street?
    It is great to know that I am far above average.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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  6. #140
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    Agreed.

    Sort of.

    The average LEO shoots 50 or so rounds at a stationary target once a year (quarterly if they work for a good department). The average CCW, less than that.

    How exactly does that kind of 'training' ready one for the street?
    We have to understand that range time is different than training. What the officers need is continued training. Our guys train every quarter. Much more than 50 rounds. Personally If Im only going to put 50 rounds down range, Im not going to the range. I cannot speak for other depts, but if they are only getting 50 rounds down range, someone is dropping the ball.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  7. #141
    Senior Member Array Mattmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    We have to understand that range time is different than training. What the officers need is continued training. Our guys train every quarter. Much more than 50 rounds. Personally If Im only going to put 50 rounds down range, Im not going to the range. I cannot speak for other depts, but if they are only getting 50 rounds down range, someone is dropping the ball.....
    Agreed.
    I train with a firearms instructor for the force here in arkansas and he does a lot of training with those guys pretty often. Seems like law enforcement around here try to stay on top of there game for the most part. As far as going to the range goes, I try to run at least 2-300 rounds. If not I feel like its a wasted trip!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR

  8. #142
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    You sure about that?
    I'll say that's average for what I know locally, and what I have read elsewhere.

    Ours only have to score between 70-80% to pass.

    I know 'qualification' is different than 'training', but how often do departments really 'train' with their guns?

    This is from a friend who is a SWAT medic for a fair-sized city:
    I don't know about the NYPD, but other police departments with which I am familiar require only 70% scores on a very easy, semi-annual pistol qualification. No stress, no movement while shooting, and simply paper targets on a square range. Even with that, many cops have difficulty hitting that 70% mark.

  9. #143
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    We also have to remember that most cops (like most CCW's) will not train on their own dime. It will have to be provided by a (probably) already budget strained department.

  10. #144
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    Not to me it is not, If I am not 100 percent sure , then i will not shoot, or that is what i would like to think, as i have never, and pray i never am, put in that situation. I am responsible for every shot I take, period.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

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  11. #145
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryMac View Post
    If I am not 100 percent sure , then i will not shoot, or that is what i would like to think,
    Nothing in a fight will be '100%'.

    I'm not buying that anyone won't shoot to protect their family or their own life when it comes down to it.

  12. #146
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Most people when faced with a SHTF situation will not even know what the back ground is or was. They will be threat focused so much back ground is forgotten. It will be and is so much different than shooting on the range.
    suntzu likes this.
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  13. #147
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    Agreed.

    Sort of.

    The average LEO shoots 50 or so rounds at a stationary target once a year (quarterly if they work for a good department). The average CCW, less than that.

    How exactly does that kind of 'training' ready one for the street?
    While I understand the point you are trying to make, I think we need to give more credit to our LEO's than this. Despite how many rounds they may fire, they deal with dangerous people and situations every day, it is their JOB.

    I am in sales, I know each day I will present my products. LEO's have to face the fact that on any given day they may or may not come home and will deal with violent people.

    I shoot roughly 400 rounds a month. And I am a darn good shot if I say so myself, but this in no way makes me ready "for the street". Bravery and guts are not learned on the range, they are the deep down traits these brave men and women have that makes them stand up and fight for those who can't.

  14. #148
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    I'll say that's average for what I know locally, and what I have read elsewhere.....is from a friend who is a SWAT medic for a fair-sized city:
    I was referring to the CCW training assumption. Most that I know are more proficient with their carry guns than typical LEO with their service weapons.

  15. #149
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    I was referring to the CCW training assumption. Most that I know are more proficient with their carry guns than typical LEO with their service weapons.
    Most I know only get their permits 'just in case'. They may carry in their vehicle, but rarely on their person.

    They may shoot a box of ammo every couple of years or so. Maybe.

    The % of people who will pay out of pocket for professional training is pretty low judging from the responses on this very site.

  16. #150
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    I was referring to the CCW training assumption. Most that I know are more proficient with their carry guns than typical LEO with their service weapons.
    Here is a poll we did on DC not a long time ago. Numbers from our own members say a lot. The question wasn't just about ranges time but being the whole package for SD. I think that the average CC'er does not shoot all that often and when they do not realisticaly. But here are the results again:
    What percentage of OC and CCer's do you think realistically train

    68 percent said that 10 percent of CC'ers train realistically for SD.

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