Is a stray round/casualty ever acceptable? - Page 5

Is a stray round/casualty ever acceptable?

This is a discussion on Is a stray round/casualty ever acceptable? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I fail to see how you can fail to see, so this is one of those impasses. I will concede that I am not certain ...

Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 187
Like Tree102Likes

Thread: Is a stray round/casualty ever acceptable?

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,884
    I fail to see how you can fail to see, so this is one of those impasses. I will concede that I am not certain I am right on this matter (and frankly, that doesn't happen often... of course I am right more than not, so...). I do know that if I took a shot that I wasn't pretty damn sure wasn't going to hit anyone but the BG and it did, I would be living the rest of my life with that in my thoughts.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

    I love Tiberius/Maggie.


  2. #62
    VIP Member
    Array archer51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    21,517
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    I fail to see how you can fail to see, so this is one of those impasses. I will concede that I am not certain I am right on this matter (and frankly, that doesn't happen often... of course I am right more than not, so...). I do know that if I took a shot that I wasn't pretty damn sure wasn't going to hit anyone but the BG and it did, I would be living the rest of my life with that in my thoughts.
    If you have the opportunity for a shot and don't take it, allowing the BG to kill, 3,4 or however many more, you also will have to live with that.
    tcox4freedom and phreddy like this.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
    NRA Life Member

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,884
    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    If you have the opportunity for a shot and don't take it, allowing the BG to kill, 3,4 or however many more, you also will have to live with that.
    That's what makes it a debate.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

    I love Tiberius/Maggie.

  4. #64
    Distinguished Member Array sid1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,891
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    So, sid1 (and others), in my scenario, you sit and watch as 33 people (minimum) - including your spouse, children, mother, father, and whomever else you hold dear - are executed, rather than taking a shot where you MIGHT hit/injure/kill one person? Really?

    Wow.
    I'm not sure at what point it became about your scenario? But my post is in response to the original post which is referring to the Colorado Incident.

    But to answer your question,
    Yes that's what I'm saying
    So your saying your good with maybe hitting one of your own loved ones? And you can live with that? Really?
    Wow.

  5. #65
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,713
    The OP is NOT "about" the Colorado incident, per se. It inspired his line of thought, but the question isn't limited to that scenario. Likewise, it is not limited to MY scenario. It covers all possible scenarios. That is why the never ever never crowd is...myopic, and dramatically limited in forethought.

    And no, I would never be "good" with harming any innocent. But yes, under certain circumstances, I would risk potentially harming one loved one to save (for example) 10 loved ones who would otherwise certainly die. That anyone would NOT do so is mind boggling to me.
    OldVet, tcox4freedom and phreddy like this.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,884
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    The OP is NOT "about" the Colorado incident, per se. It inspired his line of thought, but the question isn't limited to that scenario. Likewise, it is not limited to MY scenario. It covers all possible scenarios. That is why the never ever never crowd is...myopic, and dramatically limited in forethought.

    And no, I would never be "good" with harming any innocent. But yes, under certain circumstances, I would risk potentially harming one loved one to save (for example) 10 loved ones who would otherwise certainly die. That anyone would NOT do so is mind boggling to me.
    If you put it like that, it becomes a no-brainer. Potentially versus certainly. But in a real-life situation where you are forced to make the decision in an instant, you don't have a black and white world, you have the gray "Maybe I'm saving lives and maybe I'm accidentally killing a kid" world.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

    I love Tiberius/Maggie.

  7. #67
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    16,421
    Quote Originally Posted by Fausty View Post
    NO. never. if you don't have the shot, you don't take it. we are not cops, they get paid to deal with that. and i doubt any leo would answer yes either.
    Unfortunately, the reality is the cops weren't there to protect anyone (Are they ever?), and I will protect myself, in almost any case I can imagine. The shooter wasn't holding "hostages," he was trying to kill everyone in sight. If I happen to hit some innocent, I will try to make amends by any means I can--but I will be alive to do so.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  8. #68
    Distinguished Member Array sid1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,891
    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    This question was triggered by my thoughts on the CO incident in another thread. If you could have stopped the shooter in CO right after he started shooting, but there was an innocent person right next to him that you might hit, what is the right thing to do?

    I am not 100% sure how I feel and am looking for honest evaluation, not platitudes about the basic firearm rules. What is the right thing to do, and what should you do legally?

    We know he shot 70 people. If you could have stopped it at 1 or 2, would it be worth it? Could you shoot knowing that you might sacrifice 1 person to save 11 more, or 50 more. Could you emotionally handle the one death by your hand to prevent more deaths by his?

    The family of the person you might hit would probably say don't do it, but how do you know that he won't just turn and gun her down next anyway? But they would ask who you are that you should play God and decide who lives or dies. Is it better for me to make that decision about 1 person, or let the madman continue to exercise that decision about many many more.

    Could you handle being villanized by the anti's and the hindsight is 20-20 people who would then not know how many lives you had saved, because you did not allow the madman to continue. There would surely be jail time for you if they figured out that it was your gun that killed this person, especially if the media got wind of it.

    I understand that as a random citizen we do not have the "responsibility" to intervene, we are not police, and many will say that my responsibility is to my family and myself, but even so, I feel at least some responsibility as a human to not let bad things happen if I am in a position to stop them. I guess this is part of my cost/benefit analysis on this type of sittuation. From the LEO or military in the crowd, how are you guys trained on this topic, and do they explain how that training might apply to average citizens?

    What do you all think?
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    The OP is NOT "about" the Colorado incident, per se. It inspired his line of thought, but the question isn't limited to that scenario. Likewise, it is not limited to MY scenario. It covers all possible scenarios. That is why the never ever never crowd is...myopic, and dramatically limited in forethought.

    And no, I would never be "good" with harming any innocent. But yes, under certain circumstances, I would risk potentially harming one loved one to save (for example) 10 loved ones who would otherwise certainly die. That anyone would NOT do so is mind boggling to me.
    I must be missed the meaning of the post? Thats how I read it.

  9. #69
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,976
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    If you put it like that, it becomes a no-brainer. Potentially versus certainly. But in a real-life situation where you are forced to make the decision in an instant, you don't have a black and white world, you have the gray "Maybe I'm saving lives and maybe I'm accidentally killing a kid" world.
    But that is also the "Maybe he has fired his last shot and is now going to peacefuly leave." world.

    Life is full of choices that potentially suck, and some that just flat out suck no matter how you look at them.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  10. #70
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,884
    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    But that is also the "Maybe he has fired his last shot and is now going to peacefuly leave." world.

    Life is full of choices that potentially suck, and some that just flat out suck no matter how you look at them.
    Well, nobody said that, although in the Colorado deal that is actually what eventually happened, ironically.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

    I love Tiberius/Maggie.

  11. #71
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,963
    Quote Originally Posted by sid1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    The OP is NOT "about" the Colorado incident, per se. It inspired his line of thought, but the question isn't limited to that scenario.
    I must be missed the meaning of the post? Thats how I read it.
    I'm with OPFOR on this one: The point of the thread is to ask ourselves about the viability of an action if it were to result in any collateral damage, not what we'd have done in the Aurora theatre situation.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #72
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,713
    Quote Originally Posted by sid1 View Post
    I must be missed the meaning of the post? Thats how I read it.
    The title of the thread is: "Is a stray round/casualty ever acceptable?" The body of the post includes many references to the CO shootings, but it does NOT ask only what you would do in that scenario. It asks - right in the title - if there may EVER be a situation/scenario where a possible innocent being killed is acceptable.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  13. #73
    Member Array Maine_Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Maine/Ukraine
    Posts
    27
    I'd be interested in hearing what that 71 y/o hero in FL (the internet cafe?) was thinking about when he wounded and ran off those two armed thugs. If he can actually remember thinking anything at the moment that is.

    I'd hazard a guess that he'd say (if he hasn't already) that he was just focused on the two BGs.

  14. #74
    Member Array aj373ku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    33
    I guess you could turn the question around and ask would you ever accept a family member being killed by a stray round? I would not. You have a responsibilty to ensure every round goes exactly where intended.

  15. #75
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,884
    Quote Originally Posted by aj373ku View Post
    I guess you could turn the question around and ask would you ever accept a family member being killed by a stray round? I would not. You have a responsibilty to ensure every round goes exactly where intended.
    Uh-oh, they are going to make you turn in your guns.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

    I love Tiberius/Maggie.

Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

are ploice responsible for stray rounds
,

powered by mybb fire place

,

powered by mybb general insurance

,

powered by mybb general tool

,
powered by mybb legal hold
,
powered by mybb my way
,
powered by mybb number of people in
,
powered by mybb people on twitter
,

powered by mybb sad movies

,
powered by mybb show me pictures of
,

powered by mybb the hiding place

,
powered by mybb time share
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors