Shootout in Walmart

Shootout in Walmart

This is a discussion on Shootout in Walmart within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was walking around Wal Mart yesterday and I had a thought. What if I had to use my gun in here. I looked around ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array falkon's Avatar
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    Shootout in Walmart

    I was walking around Wal Mart yesterday and I had a thought. What if I had to use my gun in here. I looked around and all I saw were people everywhere. I don't think I could get a clear shot in any direction. I was think about an armed BG or three on a shooting spree. What would be the best thing to do.

    My answer was to get me and my wife into a place with cover and hide.
    When the BGs got to close then open fire. I don't think it would be wise to try to be a hero and hunt them down in the store.

    A second question is how do I identify myself to LEOs? After the shooting stops. I don't want them to think I was a BG.


  2. #2
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    about the only good cover in Walmart seems to be outside or in the bathroom so you have block protecting you. All the concealment in walmart is just that. not a bullet stopper.
    I would consider trying to retreat to the nearest exit, fire door or otherwise. As for I.D. ing your self, when PD show, follow their instructions to the letter.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  3. #3
    Member Array profshadow's Avatar
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    I'd think most BGs would be up front where the cash is, not near the back of the store. I'd retreat there (or by the ammo! ) and get the heck out of the way.

    Maybe by the shoes. Not near the electronics, though maybe in the photo counter space.

    If they are really going crazy, shooting and such, go to the ammo counter, and cell phone, primary, then backup then reload.

    Seriously, Walmart is a big store, so lots of places to seek concealment.

    When the LEOs come up, I don't think I'd have a weapon showing. Probably on a shelf if not back in concealment.

    Then another thing if I had to actually shoot my weapon. Then I'd be saying " I was in fear for my life. I tried to stop him. Beyond that, I'm shook up and want to cooperate, but only after I have a chance to talk to my lawyer."

    Or something like that!
    Armed & Dangerous...and Inconspicuous...

  4. #4
    Member Array falkon's Avatar
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    I was thinking about a shooting rampage more than a robbery attempt. My mind has been on terror attacks lately so that's why I was trying to think what I would do.

  5. #5
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    No matter what you think of Wal-Mart. Chances are that there will be ANOTHER shooting in one.

    They have something like 4000 stores in just the US. They also have had a couple dozen shootings in them.

    One of them my wife & daughter were in (early 1990s), when a miscriant came in and shot & killed his girlfriend.

    This mental exercise is a good one, just don't limit to Wal-Mart.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  6. #6
    Member Array falkon's Avatar
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    My wife and I have a code word we use (balloon) when we want to imagine a Scenario. when we are in a restaurant or somewhere else one of us will say "balloon". We then stop what we are doing in real life and and discuss what we would do if a deadly threat was present. This keeps us on our toes and makes for some fun times too. I got the idea from the pink panther movie where the guy attacks him all the time.

  7. #7
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    Cover?...

    One could find cover behind many of the 'people' who SHOP at WalMart!. It's a rather 'LARGE' crowd...to say the least!
    I too, am constantly viewing potential scenario possibilities wherever I go...even in church.
    I think about it constantly, always looking at people, parked cars with people in them, etc.

    Stay alert...stay safe!

    ret
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    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    While exact actions are dictated by the tactical situation, I've always wondered about this one.

    If somebody's ALREADY shooting the place up, it's not like you're going to make things worse by shooting back. Even if you do hit one or even two bystanders, the badguy is likely to kill far more if allowed to continue his rampage until contained by the police twenty minutes later.

    I have often heard pro-RKBA types lamenting the fact that no good guys were allowed to be armed at Columbine, and how things might have been different if someone at the school had a firearm. Little would have changed however, if that person locked themselves in the broom closet.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Member Array stevetim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falkon View Post
    I was thinking about a shooting rampage more than a robbery attempt. My mind has been on terror attacks lately so that's why I was trying to think what I would do.
    Here's what you do...live your life and quit thinking about "terror attacks" so much. When the time comes, that little scenario and reaction to it that you planned is going to go right out the f'ing door. Practice shooting, and if the time comes, your instincts will take over on how to move in your scenario, but your shooting practice will determine the ultimate outcome.

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    Member Array Astute's Avatar
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    Hide, Watch, and pick your time to react.

  11. #11
    Member Array falkon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
    While exact actions are dictated by the tactical situation, I've always wondered about this one.

    If somebody's ALREADY shooting the place up, it's not like you're going to make things worse by shooting back. Even if you do hit one or even two bystanders, the badguy is likely to kill far more if allowed to continue his rampage until contained by the police twenty minutes later.

    I have often heard pro-RKBA types lamenting the fact that no good guys were allowed to be armed at Columbine, and how things might have been different if someone at the school had a firearm. Little would have changed however, if that person locked themselves in the broom closet.
    You make a good point.

    I think it is just as important to practice with your mind as it is to practice with your weapon.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    I got to thinking about this one.

    My first response was to go with the general flow; seek cover and return fire.

    Then I thought of the minimum armament I might have: A seven shot Walther PPK clone, no reload. With this I would hide and unload on the bad guy iff (if and only if, from math) he were heading in my direction, and likely not until I could "see the whites of his eyes."

    Why should my response be any different armed with my large cap 9mm? The sheeple choose to be that way; let them be. Heck, in a place like Wally World I think you're as likely to be branded a criminal as the real baddie.

    Sooo... I take no action unless he's coming directly at me. I drop to one knee if I have time and unload, whether it be 15 rounds or only 7. Of course, if there's a clerk at the gun counter and I can get him to get me out a long gun and some ammo, I'll engage from a longer distance. But really, it's only a handgun I can count on having.

    In all reality, in my area, lead will be flying from every direction as, as a guesstimate, 70% of the county carries at least part of the time. Most don't practice, and I don't want to get in the way of a stray bullet.

    Josh <><

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    I would seek cover in the ammo/firearms department. Hopefully the Wal-Mart would still have one that I was in. As far as hitting bystanders I think that would be less likely if picturing this. When people hear gun fire where do they usually go? Down to the ground. Where do BG's go? They stay standing to fire and keep moving. I believe that BG's would be a bit easier to pick off in a situation like this, especially if you can use some sort of rest to fire from.

    Things like this is when good training pay's off. Train and train hard, you might have only one chance to make it count.


    Ti.
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    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ti Carry View Post
    When people hear gun fire where do they usually go? Down to the ground.
    Having actually witnessed a shooting when I was younger I can tell you that most people do NOT hit the ground. They stand there looking around, wondering what that sound is, and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Even at the tender age of 17 I recognized the sound of gunfire and hit the ground, but I was practically alone there. It amazed me how many people just stood there looking, even after they had obviously seen the gunman and knew what was going on.

    So, you most definitely cannot count on everyone else hitting the ground and leaving a clear line of fire at the BGs. I also think it is HIGHLY dangerous to just assume, "well, if I hit one or two good guys in the process of taking out the bad guys, no big deal because they probably would have been killed anyway." That may be true, but that's just not the society we live in today. Take out a GG in the process of stopping the BGs and you are most likely going to be CRUCIFIED by the local press! Depends on the DA where you live, but my guess is you will also most likely be charged.

    Think about the reaction in your community when the police accidentally kill a GG in the process of taking down a BG. Does the public and press say, "the bad guy probably would have killed more," and just shrug it off? My guess is probably not. I know that's DEFINITELY not the reaction in my community. Well, they're going to be even LESS accepting if a civilian accidentally shoots a GG. Remember, most of the public think that the right thing for a civilian to do in this situation is play sheep, not shepherd!

    For that reason, I would find what cover I could and wait for them to come to me. When they got close enough that I was sure I could hit them without "collateral damage" then I would engage. Not before.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ti Carry View Post
    When people hear gun fire where do they usually go? Down to the ground. Where do BG's go? They stay standing to fire and keep moving. I believe that BG's would be a bit easier to pick off in a situation like this, especially if you can use some sort of rest to fire from.
    Ti.
    Most sheeple, don't recognize gunfire when they hear it. They will think it is something else (at first you may do the same as well), like a backfire or someone dropping something.

    Even the ones that finally recognize the sound will not act the same, some will panic & run, others may freeze, still others may even ignore it! Everybody had the fight or flight reaction, some just don't put it to use.

    You can count on one Mr Murphy showing up as well, just be careful & don't shoot unless you are ABSOLUTELY positive where it's going.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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