Should use of deadly force be different for human or animal attackers? - Page 2

Should use of deadly force be different for human or animal attackers?

This is a discussion on Should use of deadly force be different for human or animal attackers? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Caertaker In my mind deadly force should be different for human and animal attackers. I like dogs. Humans...not so much. I'll give ...

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Thread: Should use of deadly force be different for human or animal attackers?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caertaker View Post
    In my mind deadly force should be different for human and animal attackers. I like dogs. Humans...not so much. I'll give a dog the benefit of the doubt and use pepper spray on Fluffy. He's a dumb animial with limited capacity for understanding and is most likely simply the product of human abuse. The big dawg coming at me with bad intent... should be held to a different standard. Feel free to shy away if my honesty disturbs you.
    That is a distinction many people make. It is one I do not understand. But them I am not willing to be bitten by a strange animal. I do not care if the person or animal knows what they are doing. What is in their mind does not concern me. I am only concerned about my well being. To me a dumb animal is no different than a mentally deficient person or a person on drugs or alcohol. I will not accept physical harm from any of them.

    Michael
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Why the discrepancy? Why should what is attempting to do do your great bodily harm change how you defend yourself?
    For myself, it has little to do with the threat being human or not; it has to do with the severity of the threat. If the jeopardy is real and present (and not merely "feared"), it's irrelevant whether the threat walks on two legs or four, whether it's large or small, whether it's rabid or merely acting like it.
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  3. #18
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    Just think...
    Stop the threat...
    Stop the threat...
    Stop the threat...
    Stop the threat...
    Stop the threat...
    Stop the threat...
    Stop the threat...
    Stop the threat...
    Stop the threat...
    Stop the threat...
    Now you're catching on...
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  4. #19
    Member Array garwha's Avatar
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    If you have decide to carry a firearm you better have commited to making proper threat assesments before you go off pulling the trigger. I think most of can recognize what a serious threat is and it as this point we we begin to prepare to protect ourselves. It is a rare dog that will attack for no reason, it will normally only do so to protect someone or property, or if provoked. I am in my 60s, and have never been close to being attacted by a loose dog, now I have pulled a gun on four humans though, used to be in a very high security situatiuon, so things happened. Now taking animals for food, killing dangereous virmin is another matter, and I have done both with a clear concience. Could I kill a dog, or cat yes, but I don't expect to ever need to.
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Your dogs want to be your friends. I like dogs, but I've come across more than one that were off leash, no owner around, and aggressive. If I have a medium/large dog, not attached to its owner, and with no means to avoid it and I have any inkling it's coming for me it's getting popped with whatever I have handy - spray or bullet.

  6. #21
    Member Array JerryMac's Avatar
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    If any animal is agressivly coming at me or one of my family, two legged or four legged, i will not hesitate to shoot and stop what i consider a threat. now, if it is a little ankle biter, i might opt to punt it like a football....but appropriate action to meet the threat will be used....ankle biters can hurt you, carry disease, ect.... I love animals, do not get me wrong, an avid hunter, but an animal is what it is, whether it be homosapian, dog, deer, .....you get the pic. If you come to harm me or my tribe, do not expect me to show any mercy. If your meat in the freezor or on the table, then, thats what you are.....
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  7. #22
    Member Array diver1102's Avatar
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    I think its all about threat assesment. You have to feel like your life is in danger, and not only that convince a judge or jury of that as well. A 10 lb. Shitzu, not so much of a threat, a 100 lb mastif running at you with teeth showing.. different story. This applies to too legged animals too.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    The main moral problems with dogs is that you might not be able to tell how serious they are when they're growling. If a dog is coming at you, it's vastly, vastly different behaviour compared to if they're warning you.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1911247 View Post
    If the dog weighs over 35lbs and comes at me......its gettin plugged.

    If its under 35 pounds. its getting punted like a football.

    If its a human.......its getting plugged multiple times.
    Jesus, I wouldn't be scared of people who're around the 35 lb mark! Not scared enough to shoot them!
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  9. #24
    New Member Array hunterbob's Avatar
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    Let one of those furry critters rip a chunk of meat off your leg and you may think differently.
    I was supposed to show up at a business to fix a piece of equip , early one morning. They didn't tell they had a pitbull that run loose.
    As I walked across the parking lot; I could see guys working in a shop welding stuff. I got out into the open and here comes this dog in atttack mode.
    He got within 10 feet of me and I had my 45 lined up on him. As soon as he saw that barrel, he knew what to do, and that was run the other way. So no shots fired, but my finger was on that trigger, safety was off.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Maybe Iím wrong but when it comes to threat assessment I regard the potential element of surprise a threat multiplier. Dogs are honest. They let you know exactly how they feel about you as soon as they see you. I donít think Iíve ever heard of a dog wagging his tail and playing submissive just to breech your defensives and get close enough to get a good bite in. His size is apparent. His weapons are plain to see. A dog poses a threat I am confident I can handle.

    Iíve never developed the skill to tell whatís in a personís heart just by looking at him. I can observe his behavior, gauge how he reacts to any adjustments I may make but Iím quickly running out of time and still uncertain of his intent. Only the BG truly knows for sure when the battle started. I donít appreciate being put in the hole from the start. Play fair like a dog and maybe Iíll treat you like one with a quick squirt of pepper spray. Scheme like a human...
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  11. #26
    Member Array GunTrooper's Avatar
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    I have been attacked/ mauled a couple times by bigger dogs. Trust me: painful, scary and potentially deadly. Just think, an aggressor faster than you, bound by instincts and training vs law, liability, and consequences... Whenever i go jogging or biking, i carry, and i always consider my primary threat to be domestic dogs then stray or feral dogs. I do carry chemical spray to give myself an intermediate option vs small to medium size dogs... but i usually run on the street and if the dog crosses the sidewalk into the easement, showing aggressive signs , he's getting somethin flying his direction....

  12. #27
    Member Array GunTrooper's Avatar
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    ...often when a dog attacks (especially if there are two or three) they ARE playing... They've been trained to do their job (attack home invaders) by making it a game... problem is, you are now just a plaything in the game they've been taught to play ... Three pit bulls attacked a woman in the hallway of her apartment building; when they finished only a small patch on the top of her head was not bitten ... but the entire time, the dogs were playfully wagging their tails. Not protecting property or owners ; to them it was simply a game they had been taught to enjoy...

    Bottom line, even "playful dogs can be deadly dangerous. No problem here with dispatching Fido; worry about consequences later...

  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    First I realize that humans are animals. I use animals to cover all non human animals for this question.

    In my State the use of deadly force in self defense required that you be in fear of death or great bodily harm. My questions is this. Why do so many think that the standard should be higher when it applies to dumb animals?

    Michael
    Methinks your comment is not supported by anyone on this forum--not sure where you came up with this assumption. In SC and many other states animals are (legally) the equivalent of a piece of equipment---you cannot sue for "pain/suffering" or anything relating to those type of legal terms when discussing the treatment of an animal.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Methinks your comment is not supported by anyone on this forum--not sure where you came up with this assumption. In SC and many other states animals are (legally) the equivalent of a piece of equipment---you cannot sue for "pain/suffering" or anything relating to those type of legal terms when discussing the treatment of an animal.
    My post was only to question those who say that is attacked by beast they would give the animal more leeway than they would if attacked by a human. Yes on this form there are those who say that if a dog attacked they would hold off against using deadly force until they had been bitten. Yet a person with a knife comes at them they would use deadly force before being stabbed.
    I only question the reasons for this different reaction to similar threats.

    Michael

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    First I realize that humans are animals. I use animals to cover all non human animals for this question.

    In my State the use of deadly force in self defense required that you be in fear of death or great bodily harm. My questions is this. Why do so many think that the standard should be higher when it applies to dumb animals? On this forum and many others you see comments about how a person would not used deadly force against an animal unless they were actually being bitten or mauled. Would this person wait to be stabbed or shot by an attacking human before using deadly force to protect themselves?

    Why the discrepancy? Why should what is attempting to do do your great bodily harm change how you defend yourself?
    Am I wrong to see this as a purely emotional response? That we do not want to think that fluffy actually intendeds to rip your throat out? Many of us are quick to say deadly force is permissible when we are in fear for our lives. That it is reasonable to shoot a person coming at you with a knife. Before they actually stab you. Yet when fluffy comes at you they say you should never shoot at just a threat. That you should only shoot if you are bitten.

    Michael
    Animals are just doing want animals do without thought. Humans have to make a conscious decision to decide if they will hurt you. That's what seperates man from animal, the ability to reason.
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