This is a discussion on Should use of deadly force be different for human or animal attackers? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Animals get both more credit and less - it depends. Animals may get closer before I shoot - they are given a little more credit ...
Animals get both more credit and less - it depends.
Animals may get closer before I shoot - they are given a little more credit in that sometimes they only want to look mean but aren't really going to attack. Like the post about the dog growling across the street.
Animals get less credit in that I don't feel the need to be in imminent danger of my life before I drop them. They are dogs - legally just property - so killing them has a much lower bar than killing a human. If I think I will be bitten at all, I feel it's ok to shoot earlier than I would a human.
So my lame answer - "it depends".
I don't feel compelled to try to discern the intent of either animal or human attacker. I can't tell what is going on in their mind. I can however look at their actions and base my response on that.
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
It should be different. First of all, in Florida the law is worded "deadly force.....if you are in fear of death or great bodily harm for yourself or another person....". A Pit bull, rotweiler, Doberman, german police dog,etc can and will cause great bodily hard, for sure.
Now, if a BG is giving you the impression of iminent attack, and you say : "freeze, I have a gun and will use it" and/or drawing it, maybe he will turn and run away. That obviously would not work on a dog.
I am a dog and cat person. However, I will shoot if attacked by an animal large enough to cause "great bodily harm,"
Let me differentiate here using the OP scenerio. If a human has pulled a knife or gun, that shows intent. If an amimal walks up to me wagging its tail its intent is to get petted, not attack. If said large animal is sitting on the sidewalk and growls, he is sending a message to go aaway or I don't like you, or you are invading my territory. He is not a "death threat" at that point. AT the point where he comes toward you, and/or bares his teeth, now obvious intent is shown.
However, without bite marks its very difficult that a normally friendly dog (according to the owner in court) attacked you.
They euthanize dogs for biting people. If something is after you I feel you have the right to shoot it.
Just let the people know you saved them the $75 for the euthanize shot.
Feral dogs in a rural environment are bad news and require elimination on occasion. Any ire over the thought of this should be directed at the callous and irresponsible dog owner and not the stockman or poultry keeper who has to do the deed.
Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"
“No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”
Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893
The ferel dog is, if you would, forgive my Clemens-ish tone, the most wretched of creatures - homeless, leaderless, starved, homely, and forgotten. I could not think worse of a creature but for some folks that I have had the displeasure of working with in my ill profession. Death could not be the least of relief for a ferel dog or for me.
The problem with the world is grown-ups behaving like unsupervised children.
There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
We have deep thinkers and stinkers in this group that could come up with a solution...
Buck the donkey
Simply what I think. I use animals and respect humans.
Animals usually always earn and keep my respect where as humans do not always deserve the same 'up front' respect.
Animals are animals where humans are vicious animals, unless proven otherwise.
Today started off exciting for me. At 8:30 this morning, I'm making a service call to a business that has requested my services. I was CCing with my 45. I'm in a dense commercial zone, with no homes nearby. I'm walking from my truck to the front door, and I see this medium sized dog coming at me, at what I would call a "fast-walk". Dealt with dogs all my life, I made the decision that the dog is coming to "sniff me", like all the other gadzillion dogs in my past have done so. So the dog gets fairly close, sniffs me, and starts backing off. At this point, I judged the encounter over, and start to head towards the door. All hell breaks loose. The dogs starts barking, and making threatening moves. I frozed, with this animal just six inches from my leg.
Right about now, a female (25-30 years old) comes around the corner of the building, and she is screaming at the dog, "get back here". Repeats the command several times. Finally the dog heels, turns and looks at the female. Seeing that the dog is distracted, I quickly escape through the business door. Here, the dog seeing me get away just go wild, barking, looking at me through the door. The female is now upon the dog, grabs it, and move out of my view out the door.
At this point, I realised whats happened, what could have happened, and could have stopped me from making a living for a while. I get quite upset by the whole thing. The dog had no tail, so that was one possible indicator missing for me. Dog(s) were NOT on a leash.
I managed to work through the day without too much monday-night quarterbacking. Come home, had dinner, mentioned to the wife my encounter, and here I am, researching on this forum. With a few exceptions of some posts on this thread, I find that for many, the threshold is quite lower. A couple of the postings in this thread, I don't or can't make sense out of the post(s). I'm thinking about commenting to one of them seperately.
I wish I had seen this thread sooner. There is a wealth of information here, I just recently joined, so haven't seen all the titles yet. Would I have fired, had I read this thread? I'd like to think no........ But I would have had it out and ready. Even now, I can't believe how fast it all went over.
In case anybody asks, We have a Great Dane in the home. She is trained well, minds the humans in the household, and lets us know when she hears something outside. Never allowed to roam outside alone.
Should use of deadly force be different for human or animal attackers?
Im not sure....emotionally I like animals a whole lot more then people so id put more "value" on an animals, say a pit bull, life then a persons. Emotionally, logically id say any immediate threat needs to be dealt with quickly and dispassionately before that threat can be acted upon.
Considering that only 20 - 30 people are killed by dogs in the United States in a year as compared to a much larger number of people killed by other people, I give the dogs more leeway. Also, there are more people admitted to emergency rooms for injuries caused by other people, than go there for an encounter with a dog. And most emergency room visits for a dog injury leave with a band aid.
Most dogs just want you to go away from them or their space. They may growl, or charge, but most, in the end, back off.
If I thought a dog was serious about harming me or mine, yes, I would shoot.
Do I use the same standards for judging dogs that I do for humans, no I don’t. Statistics prove, I’m safer with the dogs!
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Evil prospers when good people to do nothing. Please don't turn your back. ACT!
If a guy came into my yard and threatened to assault me, while I might call the police and/or order him to leave, I wouldn't shoot him unless he presented a serious, real deadly threat. On the other hand, if a decent sized dog came into my yard barking, growling, and engaging in threatening behavior, I'd shoot it. I'm not taking any chances with my kids lives or well being. People should keep their dogs at their houses and/or on their property, if they run free and end up at my house and appear to be dangerous, I'll kill them. Sorry, it is what it is, my kids are more important than anyone's pet, and anyone who really loves their pet won't let it run free in the first place.
The law requires a lot more to legally use deadly force on a person than it does to kill a threatening animal. Animals are not human and they do not, legally speaking, have rights. Animal life is simply not as important as human life, and we are in no danger of running out of dogs. I don't want to shoot anyone's dog anymore than I want to shoot a person, but I am not going to risk my kids' health or my health over a dog that "doesn't bite". Keep it off my property and off public right of ways and we will never have a problem.
"The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them" -Felix
I will make no distinction as a dog can seriously injure or kill you.
I love dogs. Have been bitten several times over my life time. Sometimes accidentally, other times on purpose. Broken skin on occassion, but
nothing serious. No need to over react.
Would I shoot a dog? Sure, if I felt like it was capable of seriously mauling me, was obviously rabid or someother extenuating circumstance that posed a serious danger. Large throat jumpers (shepards, dobermans, rots, pitbull, mastiff etc.) are the only ones I feel I can't handle with my
brain, feet and hands.
I have to admit I have wanted to shoot a chihuahua on occasion.
"Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"
Dog larger than a Dachsond or Yorkshire Terrier charges me while it is off leash is shot. Pure and simple. Here in OH, a dog off leach and threatening (defined as what the victim feels is a threat) can be killed and the owner faces legalities. Per statute and case law, anyway.