Should use of deadly force be different for human or animal attackers?

This is a discussion on Should use of deadly force be different for human or animal attackers? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In my mind, I do not use a seperate criteria. Immediate and otherwise unavoidable threat of death or crippling injury. In the case of dogs, ...

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Thread: Should use of deadly force be different for human or animal attackers?

  1. #76
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    In my mind, I do not use a seperate criteria. Immediate and otherwise unavoidable threat of death or crippling injury.

    In the case of dogs, and most animals, it's more likely to be fear of serious crippling injury rather than fear of death. Although, there are plenty of fatal dog maulings to warrant a fear of death as well.

    In my work, I have seen several dog maulings with serious permanent injuries. One woman almost had her breast torn off. Another man, has serious and permanent nerve damage with significant limited use of his arm. One child was bit in the face and has permanent disfunction of one of his eyes. He can still see out of it just fine, but the nerves surrounding his eye causes problems with blinking and eye twitching and he states it's very painful at times, two years after the attack.

    I use the same standard for shooting an animal as I do people. Except when hunting for food.
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  3. #77
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    In my mind, I do not use a seperate criteria. Immediate and otherwise unavoidable threat of death or crippling injury.

    In the case of dogs, and most animals, it's more likely to be fear of serious crippling injury rather than fear of death. Although, there are plenty of fatal dog maulings to warrant a fear of death as well.

    In my work, I have seen several dog maulings with serious permanent injuries. One woman almost had her breast torn off. Another man, has serious and permanent nerve damage with significant limited use of his arm. One child was bit in the face and has permanent disfunction of one of his eyes. He can still see out of it just fine, but the nerves surrounding his eye causes problems with blinking and eye twitching.

    I use the same standard for shooting an animal as I do people. Except when hunting for food.
    No offense, but I would expect that you see only the worse cases.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
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  4. #78
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    I dunno...

    I find it easy to reach into the consciousness of dogs. They crave leadership as much as bones. Humans, not so much. We'll need remedial camp fires for them.
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
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  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    No offense, but I would expect that you see only the worse cases.
    True, but I've also seen quite a lot minor dog bites and without a doubt, most are pretty minor.

    I should also say for the record, in my line of work, I encounter thousands of dogs. I also encounter them on their own turf, and at all times in the day or night. During times of extreme confusion and excitement in the home. So naturally the dogs are going to be excited too.

    In all those encounters I've never seen a time where I would have shot a dog. I've always been able to get a dog to back down, and we've also made sure the owners secured the dog either before or after we've entered. I've had people say, "Be careful, he'll nip you." I usually tell them he'll only do it once, and then he'll never do it again, so they better put him in a different room. And they comply.

    I'm an animal lover, and it's no small thing for me to want to kill one. If I am ever attacked, I will likely have already sustained the serious bodily injury when I decide to shoot it. Hopefully, it won't be too late at that point.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Bad behavior exists because we tolerate it, man or dog.
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
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    Should use of deadly force be different for human or animal attackers?

    I dunno. Which one kills you deader?
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    I hope this isnt taken wrong since im phrasing it a bit simply. Both get the same treatment from me. If I go into the dogs yard and it grows and snarls Ill get out of its yard if it will let me. If not sorry I tried to get away. Ill shoot it.
    In my yard if it growls and snarls and wont leave and makes any move toward me to harm ill shoot it,
    In public if it grows and snarls and moves to harm me Ill shoot it.

    Pretty much the same with a person except the person may understand what having a 40 cal being pulled out means and decide to head for greener pastures where a dog might not get it.
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

  9. #83
    RKM
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    I not often intimidated by dogs. I've had dogs charge me. Not always, but more often than not, dogs are more bark than bite. I'm just not afraid of them, at least up until this point. And I have been bitten by a dog... it was my fault. I would easily defend a child from a charging dog that seems in the least bit dangerous, as a child is much more defenseless against a medium sized or bigger dog than a full grown man is. Myself, though? Again, unless it's a 100LB+ dog that is obviously viscous and in the process of threatening my life, I'm just not really concerned. I'm not a professional dog handler nor a dog expert, but I've been around dogs all my life enough to know serious threatening behavior. Sometimes, I just think people are WAY too quick to pull the trigger on a dog or any animal, simply because it's easier to justify to law enforcement. There are justifiable cases, but others, wear a dog simply growls and shows it's teeth doesn't mean it needs shot.

    Humans are kind of the same way to me. I'm generally not too concerned unless they're clearly and obviously violent and threatening my life. It is much harder to justify firing on a human than is an animal, but life threatening is life threatening, no matter what species it is.

    Just my opinions, of course.
    Last edited by RKM; February 2nd, 2013 at 01:07 AM.
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    Yeah i was more talking about Rotties than I was poodles LOL
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  11. #85
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    The dog's yard? The dog's food? Dogs live and die by the grace of Human Beings.

    We throw money and prayers at the strays - dog or human.
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
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    I live in a developed area but we are surrounded by forests so there are coyotes, fox, and the occassional shy bear. I always have my gun while walking the dogs. A wild animal looks like its about to pounce and even at 25' I take the shot. I'm not gonna wait til he has my 18 pound dog in his mouth. As for dogs, I carry mace on dog walks too. If a dog is in the street and no owner around, and it has a growl and hair raised on its back, it gets the mace at 10'. Big dogs +100 pounds, I wont waste time with the mace. I have never shot a dog but come close. Owner was warned several times, police involved, etc. It was close though. I hate the idea of shooting an aggressive dog but its the owners fault. Get a leash!
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    ...here in TX, we have carefully written law in place to allow a person to shoot a dog or coyote that even acts as if it's going to attack a domesticated animal...yet I've found nothing in the law that directs a human when to or not to shoot a dog that's attacking a human...I reckon common sense takes care of that...
    ...I'm a dog lover...yet I've been bitten three times...each time was my own fault...

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    A dog, regardless of size, running and yapping at me with teeth bared (yep, it's threatening me) is going to be shot. I don't care if Rover is a hunting dog or lap dog. In Washington State, it is self defense plain and simple.

    Next question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunfan View Post
    A dog, regardless of size, running and yapping at me with teeth bared (yep, it's threatening me) is going to be shot. I don't care if Rover is a hunting dog or lap dog. In Washington State, it is self defense plain and simple.

    Next question.
    So a 5 lb pomeranian gets blown away because he nips at your heals and may cause a scratch that a little bactine and a bandaid would cover?

    I'd be worried about leaving the house... you might wilt out in the sunlight.
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    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunfan View Post
    In Washington State, it is self defense plain and simple.
    ... within the bounds of the reasonable level of force necessary. The "reasonable" language peppers the use of force statutes in many states, of course, including WA. The trick is, others (the DA, GJ, a jury of citizens) gets to determine what's deemed reasonable.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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